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Thread: Pena traded for Arroyo

  1. #286
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    What good is a hammer if you have a glass jaw?

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  3. #287
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    What is BP's take on the trade?

    Arroyo is growing on me a bit, but still what gets me is the fact that Hatteberg and Womack will start.

    I still would have rather had Clement though.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #288
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Players like trade
    BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

    SARASOTA, Fla. -- As word of the Reds' trade of Wily Mo Pena to the Boston Red Sox for Bronson Arroyo spread through the clubhouse at Ed Smith Stadium today, the players reacted with the sentiment that the move will boost the team's prospects for this year.

    “You hate to give up Wily Mo,” Dunn said. “But it’s for someone proven. This makes us better now.”

    "I like the trade," David Weathers said. "(Arroyo's) a proven winner. He won in one of toughest places to play. He was a big part of the time winning it all (two years ago)."

    Scott Hatteberg faced Arryo when Hatteberg was with Oakland A's.

    "He's very good," Hatteberg said. "He eats up innings, which is important. His stuff is good."

    The Reds also got $1.5 million in cash in the deal. Arroyo got a $750,000 signing bonus with the three-year, $11.5 million contract he signed in January. The $1.5 million makes Arroyo's salary match Pena's ($1.25 million) for this year.

    Pena was surprised by the deal, even though his name has come up in trade speculation.

    "I didn't know anything until they told me I was traded," he said. "I'm happy, I'm excited."

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...303200017/1071
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  5. #289
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    What is BP's take on the trade?

    Arroyo is growing on me a bit, but still what gets me is the fact that Hatteberg and Womack will start.

    I still would have rather had Clement though.
    Wom ack starting is completely independent from this trade. The only negative from it is Hatteberg starting. Womack will only start because Narron thinks that for some reason Womack is the answer.

    We still have every opportunity to put RA/Freel at 2nd with Hatteberg at 1st.

  6. #290
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    Wom ack starting is completely independent from this trade. The only negative from it is Hatteberg starting. Womack will only start because Narron thinks that for some reason Womack is the answer.

    We still have every opportunity to put RA/Freel at 2nd with Hatteberg at 1st.
    Not sure. This gives them another reason to say Freel is more important as a backup of.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  7. #291
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    The trade of Pena is another Jim Bowden acquisition on the move.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  8. #292
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I decided to wait all day to post what i thought about this trade. Throughout the day it has grown on me. I dont like the idea of starting Hatteberg starting at 1st. But i still believe they will have a very strong offense. Any team with Griffey, Dunn, Lopez and its looking like Encarnacion is not going to have to worry about offense. This does not include if Kearns actually does something.

    Im still wondering why everyone is dragging Womack into this deal. Im not defending him at all, i think hes terrible. But he is not part of this deal at all. I understand people being upset about Hatteberg starting but dont drag the Womack ordeal into this trade.

    Now for the trade itself. Im starting to like it for two reasons.
    1. It shows the front office knows the problem is the starting pitching and that you have to give up something to get something. And we have more than enough offense to spare.
    2. It also notices that there is no reason to keep the best offense in the league with the worst pitching.

    As for Wily Mo. I loved the guy. But with this market Dunn wouldnt even get you a proven Ace so throw that out the window for Pena. Pena wouldnt get you a #2 cause hes unproven. Pena also isnt going to get you a top pitching prospect. So you have to choose: Mid level prospect or #3 pitcher?

    If i was to guess the negotiations went kinda like an arbitration hearing.
    1. We say Pena for Papelbon or Lester. Theo says Yes right away before realizing that Krivsky is talking about the real Red Sox and not their Fantasy Baseball League.
    2. Then we bring up Clement and Theo pulls the "unproven" card on Pena and shoots that down quick.
    3. Then we say Arroyo and a prospect and Theo pulls the "terrible" defense card since they already have a DH that cant play in the field.
    4. They both settle on Pena for Arroyo and some cash

    Im not saying its a great trade but im willing to wait to say its terrible.

    I have one question. Do we get him with his 3 year contract or is that dropped?

  9. #293
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Hatteberg at 1B gves us far better defense there then Dunn (and even Casey).

    From ESPN...

    Seasonal averages are kinda ho-hum

    .268 B/A .356 OB% .403 SLG% .759 OPS

    A disciplined hitter, Hatteberg is reaping the benefits of working the count in his favor. Calling on a quick bat, he is able to both use the gaps and drive pitches with occasional power. He hits lefthanded and righthanded pitchers equally well. The 72 walks to 48 strikeouts he generated last year is not only his largest differential between the two stats in a season, but it is nearly the inverse of the 70 strikeouts and 40 walks Hatteberg posted in 1997, his first full year in the majors. He hit .615-2-23 and slugged 1.231 over 13 at-bats when the bags were full last year.

    And he is no speedster like Casey. Did I mention that he has one career stolen base (back in 2001).

    I figured that either Kearns or Pena were on the trading block. I'm glad it was Pena that was traded. As far as return value - I agree with registerthis - Pena's stock was over-rated. I really don't know what people expected in return for him? Especially in the area of starting pitching. The guy we got in return, who won 14 games last year, is pretty league average. How he will do at GAB is yet to be seen. Arroyo pitched 178 innings in 2004, and then 205 last year.

    But we were going into this season possibly facing have scrubs like Gosling, Standridge, or Germano as the "filler". Something had to be done. And I think that is the best we were gonna get for the likes of a Pena.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #294
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    You've been on Pena as a Red for a while now IIRC. What gives you the impression that it'll happen?
    with Krivsky here, defense is an overriding importance, and Carlos is one of hte better glovemen at first.
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  11. #295
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    I'm pretty sure Brooklynredz is a reliable early source on these types of things, just for future reference.
    Wasn't so much questioning Brooklyn, just didn't see it anywhere.
    ...And this one belongs to the Reds!!

  12. #296
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    What is BP's take on the trade?
    It's still early for their take on the trade but Arroyo gets a green light on the team health report.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=4873

    SP Bronson Arroyo: Now that Wells has rescinded his trade request, it’s tough to know whether Arroyo will be in the bullpen or rotation. If the Sox don’t move a starter, having Arroyo as a sixth man and all-around insurance policy adds good depth to the staff in case of any significant time missed by Schilling or Beckett.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

  13. #297
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    Hatteberg at 1B gves us far better defense there then Dunn (and even Casey).

    From ESPN...

    Seasonal averages are kinda ho-hum

    .268 B/A .356 OB% .403 SLG% .759 OPS

    A disciplined hitter, Hatteberg is reaping the benefits of working the count in his favor. Calling on a quick bat, he is able to both use the gaps and drive pitches with occasional power. He hits lefthanded and righthanded pitchers equally well. The 72 walks to 48 strikeouts he generated last year is not only his largest differential between the two stats in a season, but it is nearly the inverse of the 70 strikeouts and 40 walks Hatteberg posted in 1997, his first full year in the majors. He hit .615-2-23 and slugged 1.231 over 13 at-bats when the bags were full last year.

    And he is no speedster like Casey. Did I mention that he has one career stolen base (back in 2001).

    I figured that either Kearns or Pena were on the trading block. I'm glad it was Pena that was traded. As far as return value - I agree with registerthis - Pena's stock was over-rated. I really don't know what people expected in return for him? Especially in the area of starting pitching. The guy we got in return, who won 14 games last year, is pretty league average. How he will do at GAB is yet to be seen. Arroyo pitched 178 innings in 2004, and then 205 last year.

    But we were going into this season possibly facing have scrubs like Gosling, Standridge, or Germano as the "filler". Something had to be done. And I think that is the best we were gonna get for the likes of a Pena.

    Scott Hatteberg is a DH. A miserable fielder and a terrible hitter. He shouldn't see the field this year. Denorforia should play everyday. Too bad the Reds management can't see even the most obvious things. Sorta why you can expect Tony Womack and Rich Aurilla to take away plenty of at bats from Encarnacion and Freel whenever they even remotely slump.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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  15. #298
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    last full season for Hatteberg at 1b(2004) his FRAA was -14. Casey's FRAA in 2005 was +10. That's a 24 run difference for the mathematically challenged.

    Hatteberg is Womack Lite, a black hole both offensively and defensively. He has no business on a major league roster much less being a starter.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #299
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Isn't it amazing how many black holes this team is trying desperately to create? I am pretty confused about this offseason. Hell, I had more faith in last years squad.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  17. #300
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Players like trade
    BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER
    I love hearing players' opinions on other players. Like when Kent Mercker said Eric Milton would win 15 game this season.

    You can't write jokes like that.
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