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Thread: Pena traded for Arroyo

  1. #106
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    All you guys who don't like the deal, who do you think Wily Mo could have brought in a trade?
    I've been asking this question for 3 pages now, have yet to get a response.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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  3. #107
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    In my view something reeks out of this. Hatteberg and Tony Womack have no business being on this roster and yet they are fighting for an opening day gig.
    Exactly. In 2004 WOmack was -14 FRAA at 2b and Hatteberg was -14 at 1B. Unbelievable that the worst defensive team in baseball is going for defensive downgrades, I didn't think it was possible.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  4. #108
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Davis
    Jeff Francis...Brandon McCarthy...maybe Rich Hill in a package...Scott Olsen in a package...Cesar Carillo in a package.

    Somebody with more upside. Maybe the same guy will have a greater chance of falling on his face too, but this team needs to take a chance a guy who could be coming into his own as a top of the line starter. The roster is already lousy with #4s and potential #4s.

    I think you may be asking the wrong question. It's not about who WMP could have brought in a trade. The question is: why are we trading a significant chip below peak value once again? Christ, have we learned nothing from Paul Wilson, Sean Casey, Danny Graves, Scott Williamson et al.?

    I would have given Wily Mo a chance to build his value in a full time role. If his value isn't high enough to get a more talented pitcher, then why trade him now rather than later? Obviously, Krivsky doesn't believe WMP will increase his value.
    Exactly. I've been screaming that all morning. What in the hell is the purpose of rushing this?
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  5. #109
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    I've been asking this question for 3 pages now, have yet to get a response.
    I wouldn't have traded him now. Does that answer the question? I've said that twice before.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  6. #110
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'd say PECOTA's got a solid baseline for Arroyo there. It's important to remember that last year was the first time he went above 200 IP. He hit the wall after the All-Star break and had to fight through it. I expect he'll come back wiser, stronger and better prepared for a 200 IP season this year.

    Arroyo has real good movement on his pitches and pretty sharp control when he's on, so I'm reasonably confident his K rate will rise in 2006. All things considered, he should be a solid pitcher. Heading into the season with Harang, Arroyo and Claussen is the best Reds have been for a front three in the rotation since 1999, though each guy probably has a #3 pitcher ceiling (200+ IP, ERA in the high 3.00s). Harang might be able to deliver those innings with a sub-3.50 ERA, but that would be more of a one-shot deal than a consistent run.

    I expect Pena will be a pretty big bat for the Red Sox in the coming years. I'll stick by my Ron Gant comparison.

    Ideally you wouldn't want to trade a young Ron Gant for a Dave Burba type, but the Reds need to practice some Realpolitik. I'll resurrect something princeton said a long time ago about the JimBo Reds, they should be willing to lose a trade to get what they need. It seems to me they just did that. Pena probably will be the better talent out of this trade. But can he pitch? No. Arroyo can.

    Also, Pena shouldn't be the last OF the Reds trade this year for pitching. Kearns and Jr. should be on the block for the right price. There's a lot of work left to do. The good news is it this move indicates Krivsky's up for doing it. The Reds need to be remade and 200 IP of a guy who should be at least an average pitcher isn't a bad start.


    Well said. Exactly how I feel, although I'm not sure Pena will ever be Ron Gant. He could be more, but I've never been sold on it.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  7. #111
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Just wondering out loud, but I'm guessing this means Hatteberg and Aurilia are handling the 1B chores with Dunn heading back to LF.

    Mind you, I'd much rather leave Dunn at 1B, shift Jr. to LF and install Denorfia in CF. Unfortunately I can't imagine that's got a chance in hell.
    I wouldn't have a problem at all with that. Just you and I know that wouldn't happen.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  8. #112
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    One thing is for sure, I'm pretty sure Marty's day has been made
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  9. #113
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    So for all that don't like this, tell me which is better...

    One year of WMP, even if he hits 35-40 Homers and skips off into arbitration where he wins a number the Reds can't and shouldn't match,

    or

    Three years of league average pitching from Arroyo at a guaranteed cost, improved defense for the short term, and the money to chase a real pitcher next fall.
    So next spring's rotation looks like: Top pitcher, Harang, Claussen, Arroyo,(Milton until September,)

    This trade improves the team in the short run, and in the long run, why is it bad now?
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  10. #114
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    All you guys who don't like the deal, who do you think Wily Mo could have brought in a trade?
    It's not necessarily the trade that really irks me. It's 500 PA's for Hatteberg that does. Uncle already. Was Womack not enough?

  11. #115
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Dunn going to LF and Hatteberg is 1b is an AWFUL, AWFUL decision. Krivsky and Narron have truly transformed this into a solid 6th place team and possibly even worse than the Marlins.
    If that happens it's obvious they want better defense out there. Dunn may or may not be better at 1st than Hatteberg but he's better than WMP in LF. It's a fly ball staff. They need people who can catch those fly balls. Sounds like they are pretty desperate for pitching. If Milton is not going to be any better - regardless of what Mercker thinks - and Wilson isn't coming back anytime soon, it's a pretty sad outlook for the pitching staff.

    I also think this is backlash for WMP playing in the WBC instead of trying to improve his skills in Spring Training. Of course that'll teach WMP since he most likely is going to a team that is going to be in the hunt for a division title and perhaps a world title. This also gives the Sox insurance if Manny has an "episode" and retires or is "injured" or they actually trade him. Good deal for the Sox, jury's out for the Reds.
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  12. #116
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I like the deal. We're trading 3 years of Pena (he'd be elig for FA then) for 3 years of Arroyo at a fixed cost.

    I really like Arroyo replacing Geranomo in the rotation. It helps us avoid a lot of potential bleeding in that slot in the rotation and will make the Reds a lot more pleasant to watch over the next 3 years.

    Krivisty inherited a mess, DanO's stalling about trading the excess OFs has now bit us in the rear. Both Kearns and Pena are not worth a lot less than they were.

    I'd really like this deal if Freel became a fulltime starter in the OF. That still has a chance of happening eventually, even though it appears Hattenberg will get first shot of being a starter. I agree with the minority here that Freel isn't well suited to the infield. Letting him start in LF or CF (cleared by this move) is much better.

    Yes, Arroyo isn't an ace, but we made a good step towards repairing this awful staff. I really doubt Pena would be able to fetch another starting pitcher that was better AND locked up for 3 years. Remember, we have to look longterm.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  13. #117
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Mind you, I'd much rather leave Dunn at 1B, shift Jr. to LF and install Denorfia in CF. Unfortunately I can't imagine that's got a chance in hell.
    the only average defensive players the Reds will have out there will be EE and AK. Every one else is way below average.

    1b Hatteberg -14 in 2004(last full season at the position)
    2b WOmack -14 in 2004(last full season at the position)
    SS Lopez -11 in 2005
    LF Dunn -10
    CF Jr -18

    Amazing
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #118
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I wouldn't have traded him now. Does that answer the question? I've said that twice before.
    No, because the question wasn't whether or not you'd deal Pena, it was what you feel Pena is worth. You don't believe a pitcher of Arroyo's caliber is on par with Pena, so I simply asked what you believe a reasonable return would be. It doesn't have to be a deal that could logistically happen tomorrow, I'm just trying to guage where you place the value of a player like Pena.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  15. #119
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    If people are convinced this only brings the team from 90 losses to 85 losses,
    why do people care whether Hatteberg and Womack are starting? They'll only be here for a year, and if they excell they'll be shipped off for better spare parts.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  16. #120
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red
    If people are convinced this only brings the team from 90 losses to 85 losses,
    why do people care whether Hatteberg and Womack are starting? They'll only be here for a year, and if they excell they'll be shipped off for better spare parts.
    I care because I want Denoforia and Encarnacion getting better.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.


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