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Thread: Pena traded for Arroyo

  1. #121
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    hen what happened to his K rate last season? You don't see such a dramatic dropoff in K's unless something is horribly wrong.
    Mainly he got tired from pitching more than he ever has before. Arroyo gets Ks off of movement and control. Like I said, now that he's climbed the wall once he'll be better prepared for it in 2006 and I fully expect his K rate to rise. It probably won't get back to his 2004 level of 7.15, but it won't be down around the 4.38 from last year. I'd expect something closer to 6.00 and Arroyo can be plenty effective in that range.
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  3. #122
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Narron is full of crap.

    Hatteberg is awful with the glove and this move does nothing to improve the defense.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  4. #123
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'll resurrect something princeton said a long time ago about the JimBo Reds, they should be willing to lose a trade to get what they need. It seems to me they just did that.
    Point taken, but this team isn't JimBo's Reds. Couldn't you also say that their roster is so lousy that losing one trade to get what they need won't bring them any closer to condending?

    They need to keep winning smaller trades until they finally land a big one. I just don't think this current version of the Reds is in a great position to lose a trade involving one of their most talented players.

    Ya think Brewers fans feel bad right now that Melvin didn't come in and feel the need to lose a trade to get what they needed?
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  5. #124
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    No, because the question wasn't whether or not you'd deal Pena, it was what you feel Pena is worth. You don't believe a pitcher of Arroyo's caliber is on par with Pena, so I simply asked what you believe a reasonable return would be. It doesn't have to be a deal that could logistically happen tomorrow, I'm just trying to guage where you place the value of a player like Pena.
    I never said that Arroyo wasn't on par with Pena at Pena's present value. The point is why not give Pena a chance to increase his value? Who Pena could get now is irrelevant to me.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  6. #125
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I gotta think Krivsky simply couldn't see Germano or Gosling as viable options.
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  7. #126
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    To me unless you get a long term return for Wily Mo you don't trade a 24 year old slugger for a journeyman.

    The Pirates have a lot of good young arms ( I watched them here in Indy) hell I think I'd have liked Ian Snell at this point better than Arroyo , plus the Pirates could have thrown in a propect.

    The Reds are going nowhere this season how does Arroyo help in the future???? You don't trade a potential like Pena for a journeyman that like putting a band aid on a 7"long gash , Arroyo if he has a good year can demand a trade.

    At this point looks like Pena was given away for a 1 year rental - doesn't excite me in the least.

    The more things change the more they stay the same.

  8. #127
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red
    If people are convinced this only brings the team from 90 losses to 85 losses, why do people care whether Hatteberg and Womack are starting?
    then why play guys who are 36+ and won't be around next year?
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #128
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I care because I want Denoforia and Encarnacion getting better.
    I'd be shocked if Aurilia gets more playing time than Encarnacion at this point, considering how EdE has torn the cover off the ball this spring. At best, Aurilia will split time with Womack and Hatteberg at 2B and 1B, respectively, and fill in at third on the Reds Sunday Special.

    With Denorfia, the situation is much murkier. I'd be equally shocked if he got significant playing time, but you never know.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  10. #129
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    I've been asking this question for 3 pages now, have yet to get a response.
    How about a package of Jerome Williams and Mark Pawelek from the Cubs, who were said to have interest. Williams probably isn't any better than Arroyo, might be worse, but he'll bridge the gap until we get this roster of crap sorted out, just as well, and Pawelek is a nice prospect who can bring it at 94-96 with plus secondary pitches.
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  11. #130
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I never said that Arroyo wasn't on par with Pena at Pena's present value. The point is why not give Pena a chance to increase his value? Who Pena could get now is irrelevant to me.
    WMP has increased his value the last two years. He went from a wart on the end of the bench that we likely couldn't get a AA pitching prospect for to a ballplayer that landed an average starter with some moderate major league success. That is a vast improvement.
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  12. #131
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I wouldn't have a problem at all with that. Just you and I know that wouldn't happen.
    Not in the first half of the year. If Denorfia goes down to AAA and plays well while Krivsky gets his eyeballs full of Jr. mangling CF that will be the trigger for the change. I'd love to see the club make the move immediately, but I'm reasonably confident it will get there before the summer ends.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  13. #132
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Womack playing 2b doesn't have anything to do with Encarnacion.
    That would be Aurillia playing 3b. I don't think Encarnacion has anything to worry about for the time being.
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  14. #133
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by indy_dave00
    To me unless you get a long term return for Wily Mo you don't trade a 24 year old slugger for a journeyman.
    he was a 24 year old slugger with no plate discipline who couldn't play defense, and whose knack for hitting HRs was going to drive his salary skywards. I'd much rather have Arroyo here than have Pena Pena for $7-$8 mil.

    At this point looks like Pena was given away for a 1 year rental - doesn't excite me in the least.
    Arroyo is signed for 3 more years at a respectable salary. I'd venture to say that he'll have a more positive effect on this team than another year of WMP would have, and his long term cost will be lower than WMP--not to mention the fact that Pena can't pitch, and Arroyo can...rather well, as it turns out.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  15. #134
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I believe Arroyo's contract takes him through what would have been his arbitration years, which means he can't seek free agency after one year with the Reds.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #135
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I wonder if Pena's being at the World Baseball Classic and not being in the Sarasota camp had anything to do with his being the one traded?

    Narron was geting sufficient offense (and hustle/drive?) even without Pena in the ST liineup.

    Putting Dunn back in LF improves the OF defense with a possiblity of a 2B platoon of Freel/Womack and a 1B platoon of Aurilia/Hatteberg/Valentin.

    Is Hatteberg also the emergency-3rd catcher? If so, Javier may get more PT at 1B than he would with only 2 catchers on the roster.

    For what it's worth, Arroyo's ST ERA is a splendid 10.03 in 11.2 innings.


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