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Thread: Pena traded for Arroyo

  1. #181
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    IMO it would have been better to hold Pena and see if he got better, Arroyo is just more of the same stuff we already have.
    Go Gators!

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  3. #182
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    He was at 5.25 K/9 at the ASB last season. Hardly gangbusters, but largely due to the 109 IP he'd thrown up until that point.
    See my previous post. His K/9 in April was 4.13.

    April 4.13
    May 5.93
    June 6.46
    July 2.55
    Aug. 4.5
    Sept. 3.55

    His K rate was mediocre prior to the ASB. After the ASB, it was bafflingly low. I'll buy that he was tired after the ASB, but he wasn't doing very well in terms of K/9 even at the start of the season.

    HUGE red flag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Very good post. This trade puts me squarely in the Krivsky's got balls camp. Hats off to the guy on this one.
    Big balls and no brain is a bad combination.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  4. #183
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Hey, at least we got a new "Thug Life" candidate.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

    Your Mom is happy.

  5. #184
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader
    Hey, at least we got a new "Thug Life" candidate.
    Word to your mother homey.
    Go Gators!

  6. #185
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader
    Hey, at least we got a new "Thug Life" candidate.
    Blasphemer! No one can replace T-Hum.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  7. #186
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Blasphemer! No one can replace T-Hum.
    Oh, come on.


    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

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  8. #187
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I don't want Freel, Hatteberg, and Womack all starting. Too many judy hitters.

    Start Freel at 2B and trade for Shealy.

    2B Ryan Freel
    SS Felipe Lopez
    CF Ken Griffey Jr.
    LF Adam Dunn
    RF Austin Kearns
    3B Edwin Encarnacion
    1B Ryan Shealy
    C Jason LaRue
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  9. #188
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    The main difference being that there's an exchange rate issue, though.

    Restocking a first baseman takes a lot less capital than restocking a starting pitcher.
    Pena + Ramon Ortiz would be value-equitable to Hatteberg + Arroyo. Not that I wanted him, but Ortiz was available for nothing but money.

    As of this moment, the Reds have gained no Run value advantage and now have to find a viable 1B alternative so as not to lose Run Diff ground.

    That's the kicker and it means that Arroyo was actually more expensive from a resource standpoint than just Wily Mo Pena. That's what happens when you don't win deals.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  10. #189
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Meah, this one gets a collective *yawn* from me.

    We dealt an overrated hitter with overrated potential for an overrated pitcher.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  11. #190
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    I don't want Freel, Hatteberg, and Womack all starting. Too many judy hitters.
    Judy hitters = Know how to play the game.

    This is the lineup you'll see

    2B Womack
    SS Lopez
    1B Hatteberg
    CF JR
    RF Kearns
    LF Dunn
    3B Aurilia
    C LaRue
    Go Gators!

  12. #191
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Judy hitters = Know how to play the game.

    This is the lineup you'll see

    2B Womack
    SS Lopez
    1B Hatteberg
    CF JR
    RF Kearns
    LF Dunn
    3B Aurilia
    C LaRue
    Oh, that may be the opening day lineup but I'm guessing Narron's going to be rolling out a lot of lineups that will give us painful memories of the days of Bob Boone.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  13. #192
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed

    This is the lineup you'll see

    2B Womack
    SS Lopez
    1B Hatteberg
    CF JR
    RF Kearns
    LF Dunn
    3B Aurilia
    C LaRue
    Well, I just threw up in my mouth. I can see Jerry "Baseball Guy" Narron starting that particular eight about, oh, 100 times this year too.

    And God help that Lopez if he doesn't hit, because we can always shift Rich over to short and throw Frankie Menechino in at third--now there's a guy who knows how to play the game. And that Dunn, he strikes out too much. Quinton McCracken will give us a contact hitter and speed, there's our left field situation. Junior doesn't run fast enough for a CF, so we'll trade that overrated RF Kearns for Marquis Grissom, I figure we can always re-sign Tuffy Rhodes or Kenny Lofton to play right. Now there is a gritty team that can bunt, steal a base, manufacture a run, man they just know how to play the game the right way.

  14. #193
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Judy hitters = Know how to play the game.

    This is the lineup you'll see

    2B Womack
    SS Lopez
    1B Hatteberg
    CF JR
    RF Kearns
    LF Dunn
    3B Aurilia
    C LaRue
    If Narron uses that batting order he should be fired.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  15. #194
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    See my previous post. His K/9 in April was 4.13.

    April 4.13
    May 5.93
    June 6.46
    July 2.55
    Aug. 4.5
    Sept. 3.55

    His K rate was mediocre prior to the ASB. After the ASB, it was bafflingly low. I'll buy that he was tired after the ASB, but he wasn't doing very well in terms of K/9 even at the start of the season.

    HUGE red flag.
    I really don't think it is. He'd thrown a good number of innings in the 2nd half of 2004, it took him until May to bounce back to his prime form, but an even larger inning load caught up to him and his overall numbers were. It's hardly surprising that a movement/control pitcher like Arroyo (and what separates him from lesser pitchers in the category is that his movement is excellent) would see his K totals drop when dealing with a new level of fatigue. What he delivered in May and June is probably representative of what you can expect moving forward. He established a solid K rate in AAA over the course of multiple years and I think those concerned that his 2005 K rate will be what defines him moving forward are worrying themselves over a fluke.

    Arroyo isn't going to pitch 200 major league innings for the first time in his career ever again. He's now done it. He's actually at a real good spot in terms of his career. He's been effective against MLB hitters and he's topped the 200 IP plateau. That's the point where you'd expect a pitcher to put together his best seasons. I'm not saying I expect Arroyo's best to be wonderful, but it should be solid.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #195
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    if Arroyo is concealing something and doesn't return to his pre-2005 form, my estimate of the Reds allowing 1,000 looks pretty "good."
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