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Thread: Pena traded for Arroyo

  1. #211
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Hey Steel, how you enjoying the first day of "Spring" up there?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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  3. #212
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I don't know, if Schilling and Beckett aren't able to to throw a lot of innings and Clement doesn't rebound, the Sox might be wishing they had Bronson back in the fold. They might be deep in starting pitchers, but between David Wells, Schilling, Clement, and Beckett, that's a lot of question marks.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  4. #213
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Gammons' comments from Insider:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...=gammons_peter

    The Reds had to trade for pitching, and they were not going to part with Austin Kearns or Adam Dunn unless they got a Jon Lester, or two. Bronson Arroyo, who threw a career-high 205 1/3 innings last season, posted 14 wins and was 10th in the American League in quality starts -- will be the Reds' best starter.

    And while Wily Mo Pena is a .303 career on-base guy who sometimes plays out of control, he is still only 24, and about to begin learning the game with David Ortiz. Boston is not usually a tools-oriented organization, but one thing they lack through the minor leagues is right-handed power, and Pena is a project whose skills are worth the effort to hone.

    Right-handed corner power bats are hard to find, and Pena has awesome power and remarkable speed. The Red Sox were looking for a right-handed hitting outfielder, and Pena can platoon with Trot Nixon; Pena had an .881 OPS against left-handed pitching last season (Mike Sweeney and Andruw Jones were .877, Manny Ramirez .885). He can fill in for Coco Crisp and Ramirez, when necessary.

    The Red Sox hope this is a deal for today, giving them a boost against lefties and cutting down on the lefties coming out of the bullpen to face Nixon -- and for the future. Pena loves to play, wants to learn and because he was out of options and in the big leagues at 20, his development has been seriously retarded. Boston hopes it has another Jesse Barfield, who after the age of 23 and with almost an identical number of at-bats, had a .309 on-base percentage, the same exact .780 OPS and 45 homers, in contrast to Pena's 51.

    Nixon can become a free agent at season's end, so if Pena develops, they have added a 26-year-old center fielder in Crisp and a 24-year-old power bat in right field in Pena.

    The fact that former Reds GM and current Nationals GM Jim Bowden has spent more than 1,000 hours trying to reacquire Pena speaks for his character.

    Pena's career OPS at Great American Ball Park is .875, .741 on the road. Arroyo's OPS against was .790 at Fenway, .665 on the road. However, going from one offensive park to another is difficult to quantify.
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  5. #214
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    I think that's the key. Arroyo is superior to chumps like Ortiz, Wilson, and the various assortment of bargain bin arms the reds have run out there in recent years. Harang-Claussen-Arroyo has a chance to be a decent--not great, but decent--1, 2, 3 for the Reds. That might be enough around which to build a competitive team. It's also an option that Pena did not give.
    I liked the way gonelong framed it with a #1 to be named later (and not necessarily during the 2006 season) in front of those three. Three reliable starting pitchers would give the club something to build on.

    BTW, for those loathing the trade, I fully recognize that it's no given the Reds have three reliable starting pitchers in the wake of this deal. Harang could be a one-hit wonder (though I don't think he will be). Claussen could pitch better and have the same basic ERA as last year. Arroyo could settle into 4.50-4.75 territory. And any of them could get injured. Yet in general I see three pitchers in their late 20s who've paid their dues and who should be entering the best years of their careers.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  6. #215
    White Castle to the Nile Crash Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Gammons: "There's a new Mo in Boston."

    Nuggest from his blog:

    - The Reds weren't trading Dunn or Kearns unless they got a Jon Lester or two.

    - Arroyo was 10th in the AL in quality starts.

    - Red Sox lacked right-handed power throughout their system and WMP is about to start learning the game from Big Papi.

    - Pena had a .881 OPS against LHP last season. Sweeney & Andruw Jones were at .877 and Manny Ramirez at .885.

    - "Pena loves to play, wants to learn and because he was out of options and in the big leagues at age 20, his development has been seriously retarded." Boston hopes it has another Jesse Barfield.

    - Nixon can become a free agent after '06. They've added a 26 year old CF in Crisp and a 24 year old power bat in RF.

    - Tee-hee: "The fact that former Reds GM and current Nationals GM Jim Bowden has spent more than 1,000 hours trying to reaquire Pena speaks for his character."
    "I fought because I understood and could not bear to understand, that it was my destiny -- unlike that of my father, whose fate it was to hear the roar of the crowd -- to sit in the stands with most men and acclaim others. It was my fate, my destiny, my end, to be a fan."

  7. #216
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    I agree that the suckitude of Womack and Hatteberg in the everyday lineup will eventually lead to them being replaced. It's not a non issue, but more a temporary one.
    I see it differently, I see Narron being the type to run them out non stop no matter what the stats say because he's a baseball guy and he likes vets in the lineup above all else.
    Go Gators!

  8. #217
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Wow, this is what happens when I work all day and not check Redszone. Shame on me.

    As for the trade, it is the after-effects that concern me. I always thought Wily Mo (because of his atrocious defense) was better suited for the American League. I still do. I wish we could have gotten a better prospect for sure, but Arroyo is at a point in his career where some improvement should be expected.

    What I can not stomach is the idea of playing Hatteburg everyday at first base. First base is a slot for big offensive productivity (see Adam Dunn). I would prefer to keep Dunn at first and put some speed (Denorfia preferably) in the outfield. Put Freel at 2nd and EE at 3rd and I am OK with the situation. Playing Womack primarily at 2nd, Hatteburg at first, wasting spot starts on RA while allowing youth and speed to languish outside of starting lineup will make me sick.

  9. #218
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    I see it differently, I see Narron being the type to run them out non stop no matter what the stats say because he's a baseball guy and he likes vets in the lineup above all else.
    Honestly, I don't think Narron's got that kind of leeway. Krivsky didn't pick Narron and I doubt he'll have a problem telling Narron to bench a disaster in favor of someone else should push come to shove.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  10. #219
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I'd rather have a hole at first base than a hole in the starting rotation. I mean, I'd prefer to have a full pie, but then again I am a Reds fan.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  11. #220
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    I'd rather have a hole at first base than a hole in the starting rotation. I mean, I'd prefer to have a full pie, but then again I am a Reds fan.
    But see..we don't have to have a hole at 1st base, we can put Freel or Deno out in the OF and have Dunn at 1st (where he will end up anyway) and be much better off, starting Hatteberg over those other options just doesn't make any sense.
    Go Gators!

  12. #221
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Honestly, I don't think Narron's got that kind of leeway. Krivsky didn't pick Narron and I doubt he'll have a problem telling Narron to bench a disaster in favor of someone else should push come to shove.
    I dunno, Krivsky seems to be 100% behind him so far, the fact that on the day Pena was traded it was declared that Hatteberg is taking over at 1st just reeks.
    Go Gators!

  13. #222
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    But see..we don't have to have a hole at 1st base, we can put Freel or Deno out in the OF and have Dunn at 1st (where he will end up anyway) and be much better off, starting Hatteberg over those other options just doesn't make any sense.
    Oh yeah, I definitely agree with that. Whether it will happen is another question, but we'll see.

    I saw Dunn play first at a game last year and it was a lot less comical than I expected it to be. I would much rather have him there than Hatteberg, obvs.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  14. #223
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic
    As for Hatteberg ... I think he'll be an OK stopgap at first, ... Every team needs guys like that.
    let me rephrase, "every losing team needs guys like that", below replacement level he is.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  15. #224
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    I dunno, Krivsky seems to be 100% behind him so far
    He'll seem 100% behind Narron until he cans the guy, and rest assured he will can the guy at some point in the next year or two.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #225
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    But see..we don't have to have a hole at 1st base, we can put Freel or Deno out in the OF and have Dunn at 1st (where he will end up anyway) and be much better off, starting Hatteberg over those other options just doesn't make any sense.

    I heard Narron's using the Chewbacca defense.

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