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Thread: Pena traded for Arroyo

  1. #241
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I'm not sure if this has been posted yet but this is a link to an interview with Theo Epstein about Wily Mo:

    http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/
    "Announcing your plans is a good way to hear god laugh" -Al Swearengen, Deadwood

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  3. #242
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

  4. #243
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    That's pure speculation...we have no way of knowing what other offers were being entertained for WMP. And had WMP started off slowly--say, hitting .230-7-30 by June, people would have been moaning about the lost opportunity to trade him while the iron was hot. I'm not saying that WMP is going to tank this year, only that it's a waste of time to play the "What if?" game. Unless someone has knowledge of Krivsky turning down a better offer than Arroyo, I think this deal is fine. WMP doesn't have near the value that some people would like to place on him--not now, anyway. I think the return the reds got here is acceptable.
    I didn't say I knew what the other offers were, just that there was interest from other teams. That was widely reported. Baltimore was one, Chicago was one. That's all Boston needed to know. And it's why this trade get's a C- from me. Arroyo was a good start. 1.5 mil was a bad finish.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #244
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    For all those saying we had leverage, the Sox looked pretty willing to deal and it's not like the Reds were the only game in town. Sure, we possibly could've held out for more. We also could've held out until Craig Wilson was traded for Arroyo and the Sox took Clement off the table.

    Given the amount of supposed interest in Pena, you'd have to think that if somebody else had a comprable offer, that offer would've been acted on. If Krivsky holds his cards for too long and the offer goes away, well then you have Dan O'Brien.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #245
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick
    For all those saying we had leverage, the Sox looked pretty willing to deal and it's not like the Reds were the only game in town. Sure, we possibly could've held out for more. We also could've held out until Craig Wilson was traded for Arroyo and the Sox took Clement off the table.

    Given the amount of supposed interest in Pena, you'd have to think that if somebody else had a comprable offer, that offer would've been acted on. If Krivsky holds his cards for too long and the offer goes away, well then you have Dan O'Brien.
    Who were the other players on the market comparable to WMP? under the teams control for three more years, prodigous power, 24 years old.

    Name another player like that on the market. Yeah, I can't either. WMP is an enigma with the upside of the space needle. Kriv should have played these teams against each other better. He certainly should have gotten another arm instead of money to round out the deal.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #246
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader
    I heard Narron's using the Chewbacca defense.

    Go Gators!

  8. #247
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KearnsyEars
    So what do you guys think? What does it say about Kearns/Dunn future here?
    Moving Dunn back is a bad move IMO, he's going otbe 1 1st baseman, why move him back?
    Go Gators!

  9. #248
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    The two most recent significant trades made by the Reds were to trade away Casey and Pena for pitchers many here are underwhelmed with, which in turn appears to indicate that:
    1. O'Brien and Krivsky are both incompetent ( I agree with that evaluation as it applies to DanO); and/or
    2. Posters here have vastly overrated the market for Casey and Pena ( I have to go for this one as well).
    O'Brien did little to improve Pena's value and he should have moved Casey the previous season. The jury is still out on Krivsky, Lindner-Lite, et al.
    4009



  10. #249
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    I didn't say I knew what the other offers were, just that there was interest from other teams. That was widely reported. Baltimore was one, Chicago was one. That's all Boston needed to know. And it's why this trade get's a C- from me. Arroyo was a good start. 1.5 mil was a bad finish.
    I think it's asking too much for the Sox to part with a quality, ML-caliber starter AND a prospect of any value in exchange for Wily Mo. I think Wily Mo's value was either an established ML starter with some success (Arroyo), a AAAA innings-eater and a marginal prospect, or an unproven prospect with sky-high potential. Krivsky decided to go with choice 'A', after taking into consideration the state of the reds rotation. I can't say that I blame him.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  11. #250
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    now if there's some way to pry Craig Wilson from the Pirates and plug him in at first base.
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  12. #251
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    now if there's some way to pry Craig Wilson from the Pirates and plug him in at first base.
    Nah he's another "too valuble to start player"
    Go Gators!

  13. #252
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Nah he's another "too valuble to start player"
    no, that's Freddy Sanchez. Wilson runs too slow and strikes out too much.
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  14. #253
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    Who were the other players on the market comparable to WMP? under the teams control for three more years, prodigous power, 24 years old.

    Name another player like that on the market. Yeah, I can't either. WMP is an enigma with the upside of the space needle. Kriv should have played these teams against each other better. He certainly should have gotten another arm instead of money to round out the deal.
    I don't disagree TRF. But it's easy to talk in terms of "should've". If Boston wouldn't add an arm and would rather deal for Wilson, where does that leave us? At the end of the day, you either deal or pass. Do you know what the other offers for Pena were? Was somebody else offering a league average "proven" starter and a prospect? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Krivsky looked at all the offers, weighed them against each other, and decided this was the best deal.

    It's hard to say he should've played them against each other better without knowing what other offers were really floating around, what the starting point for negotiations were etc. I will give Krivsky credit for not just sitting on his hands waiting for his 3 year plan. While I'm in the boat that is skeptical about the actual return compared to potential return, the fact is we traded an OF and improved our pitching.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #254
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    now if there's some way to pry Craig Wilson from the Pirates and plug him in at first base.
    Why would we want him? He does not know how to win.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  16. #255
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    The you pass. Like I said, the Reds weren't going to compete with WMP or Arroyo alone. Keep him till the deadline and roll the dice If there are no takers, wait until the offseason and trade the hotter commodity of AK or WMP.

    Methinks the deal was rushed. sometimes you need to walk away from the table. I think Arroyo will pitch well. I think he's going to have a Harang 2005 season this year.

    At the same time, I think WMP is going to make people start ignoring Manny's little tantrums.
    Suck it up cupcake.


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