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Thread: Pena traded for Arroyo

  1. #91
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    All you guys who don't like the deal, who do you think Wily Mo could have brought in a trade?
    George Bell?

    Rocky Bridges?

    Harry Walker and Peanuts Lowrey?

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  3. #92
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Dunn going to LF and Hatteberg is 1b is an AWFUL, AWFUL decision. Krivsky and Narron have truly transformed this into a solid 6th place team and possibly even worse than the Marlins.
    It's a classic Reds type move. They literally make me shake my head in disgust.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  4. #93
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    All you guys who don't like the deal, who do you think Wily Mo could have brought in a trade?
    I wouldn't have even thought of trading him right now if Arroyo is his best value. No way, no how.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  5. #94
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    It's a classic Reds type move. They literally make me shake my head in disgust.
    Upgrading defense and pitching instead of hitting is the opposite of a classic Reds move, at least in most of my lifetime.

  6. #95
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    That to me isn't the point. Why is Arroyo worth the risk of trading Pena now? Do you really care about winning 75 games instead of 65? I'd rather give Pena a chance for a big early start and then flip him for something that could help later this season. What's the big rush in going from extremely crappy to still very crappy?
    Cynically, because the attendence drops off a LOT faster if you're 20 games out of first in June as opposed to not falling that far out until August.

    As much as I think it's a good idea to tank a season, play for Kearns and Pena to increase their trade value, and concentrate on building for '07 and '08, an owner never wants to look at an empty house for a homestand in July.
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  7. #96
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    I'd say PECOTA's got a solid baseline for Arroyo there. It's important to remember that last year was the first time he went above 200 IP. He hit the wall after the All-Star break and had to fight through it. I expect he'll come back wiser, stronger and better prepared for a 200 IP season this year.

    Arroyo has real good movement on his pitches and pretty sharp control when he's on, so I'm reasonably confident his K rate will rise in 2006. All things considered, he should be a solid pitcher. Heading into the season with Harang, Arroyo and Claussen is the best Reds have been for a front three in the rotation since 1999, though each guy probably has a #3 pitcher ceiling (200+ IP, ERA in the high 3.00s). Harang might be able to deliver those innings with a sub-3.50 ERA, but that would be more of a one-shot deal than a consistent run.

    I expect Pena will be a pretty big bat for the Red Sox in the coming years. I'll stick by my Ron Gant comparison.

    Ideally you wouldn't want to trade a young Ron Gant for a Dave Burba type, but the Reds need to practice some Realpolitik. I'll resurrect something princeton said a long time ago about the JimBo Reds, they should be willing to lose a trade to get what they need. It seems to me they just did that. Pena probably will be the better talent out of this trade. But can he pitch? No. Arroyo can.

    Also, Pena shouldn't be the last OF the Reds trade this year for pitching. Kearns and Jr. should be on the block for the right price. There's a lot of work left to do. The good news is it this move indicates Krivsky's up for doing it. The Reds need to be remade and 200 IP of a guy who should be at least an average pitcher isn't a bad start.
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  8. #97
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    It's not the Arroyo part that bothers me, it is the corresonding moves that is just another kick to the nuts.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #98
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    I think it's a pretty good deal.
    It's a pretty good deal if Denorfia becomes the starting left fielder, Freel and Encarnacion continue to start, and no one even thinks about letting Aurilia, Womack, or Hatteberg get 500 PAs this season.

    Oops, for a minute there I thought I was rooting for an intelligent franchise. My bad.

  10. #99
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    It's not the Arroyo part that bothers me, it is the corresonding moves that is just another kick to the nuts.
    In my view something reeks out of this. Hatteberg and Tony Womack have no business being on this roster and yet they are fighting for an opening day gig. I don't think much has changed around here.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Aurilla, Womack, and Hatteberg each play a ton this year. It's the Reds way.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  11. #100
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    It's not the Arroyo part that bothers me, it is the corresonding moves that is just another kick to the nuts.

    That sums up how I feel. TY flyer

  12. #101
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Upgrading defense and pitching instead of hitting is the opposite of a classic Reds move, at least in most of my lifetime.
    That is exactly why I did not see WMP having a future with Krivsky. He likes hims defense. That is also why I am not real worried about Womack. His play in the field this ST will continue in the season and help seal his fate.
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  13. #102
    White Castle to the Nile Crash Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    All you guys who don't like the deal, who do you think Wily Mo could have brought in a trade?
    Jeff Francis...Brandon McCarthy...maybe Rich Hill in a package...Scott Olsen in a package...Cesar Carillo in a package.

    Somebody with more upside. Maybe the same guy will have a greater chance of falling on his face too, but this team needs to take a chance a guy who could be coming into his own as a top of the line starter. The roster is already lousy with #4s and potential #4s.

    I think you may be asking the wrong question. It's not about who WMP could have brought in a trade. The question is: why are we trading a significant chip below peak value once again? Christ, have we learned nothing from Paul Wilson, Sean Casey, Danny Graves, Scott Williamson et al.?

    I would have given Wily Mo a chance to build his value in a full time role. If his value isn't high enough to get a more talented pitcher, then why trade him now rather than later? Obviously, Krivsky doesn't believe WMP will increase his value.
    "I fought because I understood and could not bear to understand, that it was my destiny -- unlike that of my father, whose fate it was to hear the roar of the crowd -- to sit in the stands with most men and acclaim others. It was my fate, my destiny, my end, to be a fan."

  14. #103
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    All you guys who don't like the deal, who do you think Wily Mo could have brought in a trade?
    A good prospect or two from a bat-hungry, pitching-fat organization like the Royals, Pirates, Twins, Dodgers, etc. And, BTW, I hate trading for pitching prospects, but I still think that would have been a better return for Pena than Arroyo.

    But can he pitch? No. Arroyo can.
    Then what happened to his K rate last season? You don't see such a dramatic dropoff in K's unless something is horribly wrong.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  15. #104
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Just wondering out loud, but I'm guessing this means Hatteberg and Aurilia are handling the 1B chores with Dunn heading back to LF.

    Mind you, I'd much rather leave Dunn at 1B, shift Jr. to LF and install Denorfia in CF. Unfortunately I can't imagine that's got a chance in hell.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  16. #105
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    Re: Pena traded for Arroyo

    Well lets after Wily Mo Pena hits 40 homers with the convient green monster , it will be interesting to hear people in Cincy's comments.

    The Reds need pitching badly but if Matt Clement was available the Reds picked the wrong pitcher. Clement has better stuff , and better movement on his pitches , plus he has pitched in Wrigley so he has experience in an NL homer haven.

    I'd have hoped the Reds could have acquired a young arm along with Arroyo , at this point personally I'd just as soon seen Justin Germano every 5th day as Arroyo.

    A #4 starter for Sammy Sosa minus the roids does not excite me in anyway. Sorry at this point this deal to me is no better than a deal Dano would have made.

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