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Thread: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

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    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    From today's REDSNOTES:

    Referring to Ryan Wagner, Narron is quoted as saying:

    "The last couple of years, if he ever got a swing and a miss on a slider, you could flat out believe the next pitch would be a slider," Reds manager Jerry Narron said. "That's something he needs to get away from."


    In other words, Narron is blaming Ryan Wagner's failures on Narron letting Wagner call his own pitches!!!?


    Is there any opinions out there that are asking for Narron to be replaced?
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_Davis
    From today's REDSNOTES:

    Referring to Ryan Wagner, Narron is quoted as saying:

    "The last couple of years, if he ever got a swing and a miss on a slider, you could flat out believe the next pitch would be a slider," Reds manager Jerry Narron said. "That's something he needs to get away from."


    In other words, Narron is blaming Ryan Wagner's failures on Narron letting Wagner call his own pitches!!!?


    Is there any opinions out there that are asking for Narron to be replaced?
    Narron wasn't are manager the last year few years.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    Actually sounds more like more blame it all on Miley and Gullet.
    Go Gators!

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    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    It seems like we're seeing now the Wagner that we drafted....hope he "earns" the closers job.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_Davis

    In other words, Narron is blaming Ryan Wagner's failures on Narron letting Wagner call his own pitches!!!?
    I'm a little confused here...my understanding is that ALL pitchers call their own pitches.

    Which manager(s) call pitches? (aside from pitchouts --perhaps-- and intentional walks). I haven't followed baseball as closely as when I was a kid..did this change?
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper
    I'm a little confused here...my understanding is that ALL pitchers call their own pitches.

    Which manager(s) call pitches? (aside from pitchouts --perhaps-- and intentional walks). I haven't followed baseball as closely as when I was a kid..did this change?
    Exactly. That's the way it always has been. It's not as if what a pitcher throws is somehow "scripted" before the game by the manager. A pitcher has to be able to "trust his own stuff", and not rely on the manager to tell him what to throw. It's the manager's job to be able to evaluate when that pitcher doesn't have his best stuff and jerk him out of there.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    Remember that Narron is a former catcher, and lots of veteran catchers do call games, especially with young pitchers on the mound. My guess is that that is Narron's point.

    I guess its okay for a former catcher to be more active with pitchers, but after reading your accounts of Boone, I think you want to keep them away from the batting cage.

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    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    I'm a little confused here...my understanding is that ALL pitchers call their own pitches.
    "I want my pitchers to call the game. It's the pitchers game, and he is going to win or lose it."

    It's the manager's job to be able to evaluate when that pitcher doesn't have his best stuff and jerk him out of there.
    "1. Pay attention to foul balls.
    2. Watch the catcher.
    3. See if the pitcher takes the same amount of time between pitches.
    4. Beware of leadoff walks.
    5. Watch the guys low in the order...If they start pulling the ball, it's a sign of trouble.
    6. Watch where the pitches are going when they miss the strike zone.
    7. Watch the pitchers delivery."

    ~ Earl Weaver
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    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

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    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    I know for a fact that Mike Scioscia calls pitches from the bench. I am not saying 100% of the time or for all of his pitchers, but it has been known to happen.
    I remember several years ago Mike DeFelice got in a shouting match on the mound because the pitcher kept shaking him off. Kendall was a hot head about 'him' being the one to call games as well. So I guess my point is that it's more likely a collaborative effort and it changes from team to pitcher to catcher as to who is calling what and when.
    Some pitchers will also change their mind as they are in the wind up as to arm angle or taking a little off of it. So I guess as long as the catcher picks up what you're puttin' down, there's no harm & no foul.

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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    Its usually between the pitcher and the catcher about going for a particular pitch. For younger pitchers and some catchers tend to like to call the pitch but some catchers will usually know what a particuler pitcher will prefer to throw. Some guys will have particular plans for hitters before they face them. The manager may send out suggestions.

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    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    the last two years when someone not named Prior or Maddux has been on the mound you will see Michael Barrett looking to Larry Rothschild to get the pitch in tight situations.
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    This may have a lot to do with why Larue is being shopped and why Krivsky acquired Ross from the Padres. Game calling is a huge part of a catcher's defensive abililities, but one that isn't easily quantified so it slips below the radar of most fans and many sportswriters too. The difference that having a Brad Ausmus, or Jason Varitek or one of the flying Molina brothers behind the plate makes on your pitching staff is huge, probably outweighing the offensive abilities of a Mike Piazza or Pudge Rodriguez by a country mile.

    If Krivsky and Narron have spotted this as a deficiency with the Reds, and are doing something to rectify it, kudos to them.

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    I guess I'm Old School...I remember a passage from Tom Seaver's book, which IIRC went something like this (excuse me, it was over 30 years since I read it):

    Seaver shakes (Jerry) Grote off several times and Grote trots out to the mound:

    Grote: "Hey. Who's calling this game anyway?"
    Seaver: " I am. I'm the last person to touch the ball before it gets to the plate and the hitter, so I should throw what I want to throw"
    Grote: " Ohhh....OK"

    According to Seaver, they never had a problem after that.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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    Re: Why does Jerry Narron let young pitchers call their own games?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget
    The manager may send out suggestions.
    Yep. The "strategy" aspect of the game, as to whether to pitch to certain players (with runners on), who is on deck, who the opposing manager may pinch hit, are all aspects/decisions that fall on the shoulders of the manager. And they also will "remind" a pitcher from time to time what a particular batter's weaknesses/strengths are with certain pitches. That is part of their job.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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