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Thread: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

  1. #1
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Apologies if already posted.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/onlin...res/26782.html

    The Reds are getting what they paid for. They went cheap in the draft for several years, resulting in their failure to sign first-rounder Jeremy Sowers in 2000 and taking Chris Gruler over Scott Kazmir with the third overall pick in 2001. Cincinnati appeared to score with pitchers Ryan Wagner, Thomas Pauly and Richie Gardner in the 2003 draft, but all three suffered serious injuries last year. Righthander Homer Bailey and outfielder Jay Bruce have huge celings, but they're a few years away. The Reds have little depth behind them, and almost none at the upper levels. A new ownership group led by Robert Castellini may have to invest heavily in player development to turn the team around. Castellini already has overhauled the front office, hiring Wayne Krivsky as GM and Chris Buckley as senior director of scouting, and promoting Johnny Almaraz to farm director.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Hey, they dropped a spot since the first release of the list earlier in the month.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Your 2000 and 2001 last-place finishers were the Brewers. They got the #1 in 2004 and are still at the top.

    So, 3-5 years if WayneK and JohnnyA do their jobs and Bob Castellini does his and we are right there.

    Should be a fun, yet interesting ride.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    eh, who cares.

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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Your 2000 and 2001 last-place finishers were the Brewers.
    Maybe they don't like Dean Taylor.

    I gotta feeling there are politics involved.

    You see that they sharply discount Bailey and Bruce for being young prospects (even though they have "huge ceilings"). My guess is that the rationale for other systems being highly rated will be at least partly based on similarly aged, huge ceilinged prospects. I put little stock in their organizational rankings -- I think they use them to reward folks with whom they have a good relationship.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Like all BA rankings, it's a market value measurement.

    The downside of ranking #30 in the BA list is that the market doesn't perceive your system as having much to offer. It ties Wayne Krivsky's hands a bit as he attempts to remake the club.

    And the sad thing about the ranking is that so many of us saw this coming when DanO refused to embrace a rebuilding project. All he succeeded in doing is making the job harder for the next guy.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve
    Maybe they don't like Dean Taylor.

    I gotta feeling there are politics involved.

    You see that they sharply discount Bailey and Bruce for being young prospects (even though they have "huge ceilings"). My guess is that the rationale for other systems being highly rated will be at least partly based on similarly aged, huge ceilinged prospects. I put little stock in their organizational rankings -- I think they use them to reward folks with whom they have a good relationship.
    I have a better idea, they ranked us that low because we flat out suck.

    Its true.

    I seriously cannot think of a team on that list who should be ranked below us. San Diego has Cesar Carillo, and New York has Lastings Milledge and Mike Pelfrey. I don't think Baseball Prospectus or any other service will be any more friendly.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve
    You see that they sharply discount Bailey and Bruce for being young prospects (even though they have "huge ceilings"). My guess is that the rationale for other systems being highly rated will be at least partly based on similarly aged, huge ceilinged prospects.
    I don't think they're dismissing Bailey and Bruce; BA has historically been the champion for high-upside kids drafted out of high school. They're dismissing the Reds' system for having so few of them. That, and having all but nothing in the pipeline that's close to helping the big club.
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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Good to be the king.
    Go Gators!

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Like all BA rankings, it's a market value measurement.

    The downside of ranking #30 in the BA list is that the market doesn't perceive your system as having much to offer. It ties Wayne Krivsky's hands a bit as he attempts to remake the club.

    And the sad thing about the ranking is that so many of us saw this coming when DanO refused to embrace a rebuilding project. All he succeeded in doing is making the job harder for the next guy.
    This does not reflect well on O'Brien. His mantra all along was "it's a long rebuilding process and we're starting with the farm system..." His excuse for not winning at the major league level was that he was building the farm system. Well he made numerous trades to stock the farm system (Nelson, Bong etc) yet the farm teams put up horrible records and now they're ranked last by BA. O'Brien was a disaster as GM

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Forget pitching -- name the last 5 players to come up through the Reds sytem and put together careers as major league regulars (ie. ML starter, primary bench guy, or pitcher that isn't a non-roster invite). If there are 600 such players at any given time, and the average career is 12 years long, that's 50 new players of that quality per yer -- or just under 2 per team.

    1. Adam Dunn
    2. Aaron Boone
    3. Jason LaRue
    4. Pokey Reese
    5. Reggie Sanders
    6. Dan Wilson

    I think you get the idea. I know I'm missing some guys, but the system has been weak for 15 years and not only weak but "unlucky" the last 6 or 7.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    The issue isn't whether you're dead last, next to last or fifth from last.

    Apparently, the players DanO got during his first two years, including the foreigners that weren't among the drafted players, haven't developed into prospects worthy of raising us out of the bottom third of the league.

    I wouldn't mind starting over if we had actually won a championship like the Twins, Marlins, or D-backs, but we basically sucked for the last 10 years, and still have nothing to show for it.

    Hey Bengals fans! Does any of this sound familiar?

    At least we got rid of the one constant during all this....Carl Lindner.

    Good Riddance Carl Lindner! Hope the door didn't hit you too hard in the behind on your way out.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Aww, they used to have a good farm team. I'm sure it changes over the years.
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    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Nowhere to go but up!
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    Re: Baseball America:Reds Farm System Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by BoydsOfSummer
    Nowhere to go but up!
    If you're gonna make it in these parts, you'll change your tune.
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.


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