Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

  1. #1
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    7,234

    Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    As always with the Times, you must register, but it's free:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/sp.../02homers.html

    A good read. I think it's kind of premature to speak about A-Rod's possibilities of surpassing Aaron -- and, more to the point, Bonds, if he passes Aaron first -- and the whole steroid situation is still pretty sticky. But the article paints A-Rod in a very good light that I think we sometimes forget.

    I was speaking with a friend today about the intense hatred A-Rod endures. Much of it, of course, comes simply from the fact that he's so freaking good, and so there's bound to be jealousy, sour grapes, what have you. But even so, I wonder why he's not more revered and looked up to than he is. He is absolutely vilified in some circles, for some of the following reasons, as far as I can gather:

    1. "He's wishy-washy." First of all, as this article goes to great lengths to point out (not that it's not pretty obvious), Alex Rodriguez has one of the strongest work ethics in the majors. He's kind of a freak about it, actually. Not exactly what I'd qualify as wishy-washy. Then there was the whole what-team-do-I-compete-for fiasco with the WBC. I think this is perfect evidence of A-Rod's biggest character flaw -- not problem, but flaw, as we all have: he is still so concerned about what other people think about him. It is, in my opinion, what hampers in the postseason. He puts so much pressure on himself to be perfect that it backfires on him. It's not wishy-washiness; it's immaturity and self-doubt. He'll grow out of this once he learns to say I don't give a flip what you think once in a while.

    2. "He went with the money." Well, cry me a river. You show me one kid who wouldn't have taken that kind of money to go play for a perenially contending team, and I will show you a kid who does not play major league baseball. Notably absent from these people's arguments? He switched positions for the good of his team. he deferred to the hero of the team, who is a poorer shortstop, in order to play for the Yankees without disrupting the atmosphere of their clubhouse. We can argue the management's decision in this case all we want -- I happen to think that, in the end, it was a good one -- but the fact is the decision and the work that it took to become the excellent third baseman that he has are noble things.

    3. "He knocked the ball out of Arroyo's hand." He was in a desperate situation. he panicked. It was not intentional, and many people would have done the same thing.

    And all the rest. He has pink lips. He admitted being in therapy. etc. These really aren't even worth argument.

    The funny thing is, I am a huge Yankees fan and I was appalled by this trade. I thought it was a horrible move for a name player and I didn't think things would work out. I wasn't convinced by his first season there; he did have trouble adjusting in all the ways I expected him to (and frankly, the fact that he did so more last year makes me think better of him. He's gotten used to not being the only superstar anymore.) And he's never been my favorite guy. At times, he has rubbed me the wrong way. But in a sport filled with guys who are nasty, who knock down cameramen and are awful to fans, I have gotten to the point where I am really at a loss as to see why A-Rod is regarded as a jerk. And this article really brings it all home to me. He is an amazing, amazing ballplayer, offensively and defensively. He's hit 400 homers earlier than anybody else in baseball. he works incredibly hard. He's rumored to be a pretty nice guy. He doesn't have that unshakable confidence that his teammate Jeter has, but then many people who use this as a reason to hate A-Rod use that exact contrary argument to hate Jeter as well. A-Rod is a superstar with the media and makes tons of money in endorsements, but I don't get the impression that the country as a whole views him with much affection.

    I guess my point is kind of that I feel A-Rod's accomplishments to date are amazing, and while they're certainly recognized, I feel that if he had a stronger personality -- even stronger in a "bad" way -- or if he played for any other team, he'd be a million times more revered for them. It's still very early, but if A-Rod does continue on this path to break the record, and he doesn't get the attention for doing so that Bonds does, for any of the reasons listed above, or because he's a Yankee, or because he doesn't have the inflammatory look-at-me personality that Bonds does, or because there's no controversy because there's no evidence of steroids with A-Rod then I think that will be a really sad commentary on the sport of baseball.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    6,271

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    I guess my point is kind of that I feel A-Rod's accomplishments to date are amazing, and while they're certainly recognized, I feel that if he had a stronger personality -- even stronger in a "bad" way -- or if he played for any other team, he'd be a million times more revered for them. It's still very early, but if A-Rod does continue on this path to break the record, and he doesn't get the attention for doing so that Bonds does, for any of the reasons listed above, or because he's a Yankee, or because he doesn't have the inflammatory look-at-me personality that Bonds does, or because there's no controversy because there's no evidence of steroids with A-Rod then I think that will be a really sad commentary on the sport of baseball.
    Fans are fickle, and oftentimes some fans do not even realize just how special a player is while the player is still very much in their peak seasons. I'm a fan of Alex Rodriguez, and much of that is because it's fun to watch a player that you know is already one of the greatest ever to play the game. I could care less how much money he makes or what kind of personality he has, and I'm not going to let something as petty as those reasons rob me from enjoying how special of a player Rodriguez is. I guess it's just a deep apprecation for how great of a player he really is. Albert Pujols also fits that category of a present player entering his peak or still in his peak who will likely retire and be on the very short list of some of the greatest players the game's ever seen.

    Even if Alex Rodriguez never played another baseball game in his life, I would still rank him in the top 25-30 position players of all-time, perhaps even higher, in a list that also included Negro Leaguers. That's simply remarkable for a player that's not yet 31-years-old. He's already arguably the second greatest shortstop ever to play the game (after this season, he should be a lock for that title), and it's possible that he may still finish his career with more games played at shortstop than any other position, including third base. So long as he plays more games at shortstop than any other position, he'll be considered a shortstop.

    I do think Rodriguez is a much better defensive shortstop than Jeter, and I also think the Yankees made a mistake in moving Alex instead of Derek, but the historical reasoning is the biggest reason I was disappointed that the Yankees moved him to third.

    No worries, though, Rodriguez will get the accolades he deserves eventually. It may not be until he's past the age of 35, but other fans will start to recognize just how great of a player he's been. Unfortunately for some of them, they won't realize it until his skills are diminished and he's beyond his peak, but that'll be their loss.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  4. #3
    Member Jpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southern KY
    Posts
    6,967

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    The reason that a lot of people don't like him is simple, he plays for the Yankees. I think that he is the greatest baseball player on the planet and I don't think it's even that close.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    cincinnati, oh usa
    Posts
    691

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    2. "He went with the money." Well, cry me a river. You show me one kid who wouldn't have taken that kind of money to go play for a perenially contending team, and I will show you a kid who does not play major league baseball.
    I don't recall Texas being a perennial contender when he went with the money.

  6. #5
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    7,234

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Quote Originally Posted by big boy
    I don't recall Texas being a perennial contender when he went with the money.
    Well, I was talking about the Yankees...did people have much of a problem when he took a bigger salary to play in Texas too? I don't remember that...did anybody really expect him to stay in Seattle? If that's people's argument against him, that's ridiculous. That's why free agency exists and every single decent player in baseball goes through that.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    109

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    I like A-Rod and always have. There were two baseball posters on my wall growing up: Barry and A-Rod.

    Had he stayed in Seattle and really made it his team after Junior left, I think he might be judged in a different way and become more of a leader. I couldn't blame him for taking that un-godly amount of money from Texas either, even though it disappointed me. And now I WILL tune in and watch the Yanks instead of cursing and changing the channel.

    The therapy issues are his private life and don't bother me. This day in age it shouldn't be something to snicker about. He's a good guy and felt he needed the help, so what? Good for him. Maybe he can be a better father than his dad was.

    A-Rod will always be my favorite out of his generation of shortstops.

  8. #7
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,960

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    If Barry passes Hank, I'll become a huge fan of seeing A-Rod become the HR champ. Such is my disdain for Barry Bonds that I'd root for a Yankee to hold yet another record...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Pook's Hill
    Posts
    1,552

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    I used to be a huge fan of ARod. He was my favorite player when he came up, but I thought he played Seattle and really damaged them in the end. That and the fact that I hate the Yankees has brought me to the point I openly root against him. The thing I find most odd is that the other baseball players don't seem to like him very much, and I really don't know why that is.

    He is without question the best natural (at least I think he's natural) player of this decade, and he's not outwardly a bad human being, so I'm sure in the end I will be rooting for him to pass Bonds.

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    cincinnati, oh usa
    Posts
    691

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    did people have much of a problem when he took a bigger salary to play in Texas too?
    I believe he took some heat when he insisted that winning was his priority but, in 2001, Texas stunk while Seattle won well over 100 games. He could have been the difference Seattle needed to win the World Series. Instead, he chose the big dollars.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Monfort Heights
    Posts
    621

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Put me in the camp of ARod fans who were disappointed he took Texas' money but completely understood. If someone offers you $250 million you would have to assume that he's serious about winning and will try to put people around him. I still can't believe that the Yankees are wasting his talent at 3rd base. Jeter is one of the worst defensive shortstops of all time, that isn't opinion that's a fact. If you don't believe it read Mind Game, the story of the '04 Red Sox and it explains it clearly.

  12. #11
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    7,234

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Quote Originally Posted by UC_Ken
    Jeter is one of the worst defensive shortstops of all time, that isn't opinion that's a fact. If you don't believe it read Mind Game, the story of the '04 Red Sox and it explains it clearly.
    Jeter is not on A-Rod's level, but I strongly disagree that he is "one of the worst defensive shortstops of all time". His range is limited, though much improved, especially to his left. If anything A-Rod has helped him there, allowing Jeter to cheat up the middle more. He's not particularly great with his feet either. But he's got great hands, good instincts and speed, and he's excellent at tracking fly balls. He's not a high-above-average shortstop, but he's certainly decent, and though he's overrated by some in the media I do feel that as a shortstop he's sometimes underrated by people who don't bother to watch the Yankees regularly.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  13. #12
    Spirit of 1976
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    With the Devil Rays
    Posts
    49

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    I guess my point is kind of that I feel A-Rod's accomplishments to date are amazing, and while they're certainly recognized, I feel that if he had a stronger personality -- even stronger in a "bad" way -- or if he played for any other team, he'd be a million times more revered for them. It's still very early, but if A-Rod does continue on this path to break the record, and he doesn't get the attention for doing so that Bonds does, for any of the reasons listed above, or because he's a Yankee, or because he doesn't have the inflammatory look-at-me personality that Bonds does, or because there's no controversy because there's no evidence of steroids with A-Rod then I think that will be a really sad commentary on the sport of baseball.[/QUOTE]

    This shows a simple axiom of human nature - when you're on top, there are an abundance of people who want to knock you down. A Rod bashing is now a cottage industry.

  14. #13
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    6,271

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    Jeter is not on A-Rod's level, but I strongly disagree that he is "one of the worst defensive shortstops of all time". His range is limited, though much improved, especially to his left. If anything A-Rod has helped him there, allowing Jeter to cheat up the middle more. He's not particularly great with his feet either. But he's got great hands, good instincts and speed, and he's excellent at tracking fly balls. He's not a high-above-average shortstop, but he's certainly decent, and though he's overrated by some in the media I do feel that as a shortstop he's sometimes underrated by people who don't bother to watch the Yankees regularly.
    • Jeter has a career -124 FRAA.
    • In 2005, he was among the worst defensive shortstops according to David Pinto's Probabilistic Model of Range.
    • Bill James writes in The Fielder's Bible that Jeter is A) likely the worst defensive shortstop in the game today, B) likely the worst defensive regular in the game today at any position, and C) quite possibly the worst defensive shortstop of all-time.
    • In Lichtman's UZR, Jeter was downright awful. TangoTiger analyzed UZR from 2000-2003, applied a weighting system for each season, and concluded that Jeter is approximately -28 UZR runs per 162 games played. That was good for dead last among shortstops, and it was the fourth worst total among regular players at any position with 120 minimum weighted games.
    • In The Hardball Times, David Gassko introduced a fielding range system that showed Derek Jeter at -16 runs above average in 2005.

    Fielding metrics still have quite a bit of work to do, but it's essentially unanimous among many highly touted systems currently available that Jeter is beyond lousy defensively at shortstop. Gassko's fielding range system disagrees with Pinto's PMR on quite a few players, but even they agree that Jeter is terrible. Unfortunately for Jeter, he's only going to get worse as he ages (see Junior Griffey). Right now, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop of all-time, but if he plays the position for another half dozen years, he'll certainly have a say in laying a claim to that title.

    If the Yankees were smart, they'd have moved Jeter to third when they acquired Rodriguez.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 04-03-2006 at 01:42 PM.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  15. #14
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    7,234

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    If the Yankees were smart, they'd have moved Jeter to third when they acquired Rodriguez.
    I wouldn't argue that. In the end, it worked out better than I expected, but I do agree with you there.

    The stats are good, and telling to a degree -- but 2005 was a particularly bad year for him defensively. I think 2006 will be better for him with Cano permanent and improving and no Bernie behind him.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Monfort Heights
    Posts
    621

    Re: Good article about A-Rod/HR record

    Someone probably has the stats but I believe 2005 was Jeter's best year ever defensively and he was still way below average. Anyway I understand you defending your guy but Jeter is a miserable fielder, always has been, always will be.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25