Casey - nope, you got value.
Pena - I think yes, but only if you had waited until July. It would have been a risk, but one I would have taken myself. Of course there is a reason why I work in healthcare and not baseball...
Casey - nope, you got value.
Pena - I think yes, but only if you had waited until July. It would have been a risk, but one I would have taken myself. Of course there is a reason why I work in healthcare and not baseball...
Nothing to see here. Please disperse.
Don't know if they could have gotten more for Casey, but they couldn't have gotten much less.
Could trading Kearns gotten more than Pena?
On Casey, I'd have liked seeing another player thrown in, perhaps a AA pitcher. I think we got too little for Casey and think he'll be a great fit for Pittsburgh, both on and off the field. His numbers may not be stellar, but I don't think you can calculate the value he will bring to that clubhouse, particular with Tracy managing them now. I've said all along that Williams himself was shocked that it was a straight up trade (albeit with the cash flowing over from the Reds).Originally Posted by corkedbat
I don't think so. Most Zoners were all for getting Arroyo at the time of the trade. There is a big difference between wanting more in a deal than not wanting the deal at all.
Last edited by MattyHo4Life; 04-06-2006 at 08:56 AM.
DanO could have done a better sell job on Casey.
The Pirates wanted him badly, being a hometown boy and all. DanO could have talked up his .370 OBP, and his 2004 numbers. Heck, he could have landed prospects instead of Dave Williams, maybe paying a bit of Casey's salary to get a better return.
Pena was a different story in my mind.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
Could Casey have brought more? Maybe, but that wasn't the goal. His trade was a salary dump, and to free up first base for Dunn and unclog the outfield. That didn't work out the way it was drawn up, but I believe that was the idea at the time.
Could we have got more for Pena? Maybe, but we got what we needed, dealing from surplus into need.
You don't win every trade. Sometimes you overpay to fill a need. Deals don't happen in a vacuum, and can't be analyzed without a myriad of other factors being weighed.
We'll go down in history as the first society that wouldn't save itself because it wasn't cost effective ~ Kurt Vonnegut
Of course it was a salary dump, but what good came from it. The team made a little extra money. The fans don't benefit from a salary dump unless the money is put back into the team. The Casey trade makes some sense if Pena is kept. I don't see how it makes sense to trade both Pena and Casey. I think the Reds would have been better off keeping Casey and dealing Pena for Arroyo.
Very true.
They could have done better on both deals.
But we've debated this endlessly on other threads.
"I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
The Reds should have sweetened the pot with Casey and another offensive player, such as Freel to replace Mocowiak, to get one of the major league ready, cheap young arms away from the Pirates. Of course, much like the Reds are way too slow in their pursuit of pitching while holding on to a boatload of offense, the Pirates still don't seem to recognize that they may have an excess of good young pitching but year after year have a pitiful offense that turns losing low scoring games into an art form much like the Reds have done so with high scoring games.
I would disagree with that.
Most 'zoners didn't really know a whole lot about Arroyo. They just knew that they got a pitcher for an outfielder.
Could the Reds have gotten more for Pena? Perhaps. If they had waited till mid-season. What the people that objected to the deal was that it didn't really do anything to get the Reds to the WS. Now, we're simply in the race for 5th place. Whoopee!
Rem
That's hogwash. There is a megapost thread that discusses nearly everything but what Arroyo eats for breakfast and what kind of toilet paper he uses. And that might be in there somewhere, I might have just missed it because of all the posts.
As if any other sort of place was attainable?Now, we're simply in the race for 5th place. Whoopee!
If most "zoners" didn't know who Arroyo was by your POV, I'll counter that most of them also know that there's a snowball's chance in hell of the Reds even finishing 2nd in their division, with Arroyo or Pena or even both on the team.
The only way I see getting more value for Casey was trading him a couple of years earlier...same with WMP.
I like the deal with the BoSox and did at the time of the trade...we need arms more than we need a 4th OF with the masssive power of WMP.
"Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."
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