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Thread: With a move or two, we can contend

  1. #16
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    This divison sucks. Period. The Cardinals have a taken 3 steps back this offseason, the Pirates suck, the Astros are ok at best, and the Cubs and Brewers are both decent. Our offense is great, and I honestly think our rotation will be decent (I thought that before the year, this week had nothing do with this). If we can find a way to get a decent bullpen, we will have a legit shot to contend in the NL Central.

    I hope Krivs makes a move to get us some bullpen arms.
    Who is with me!?

    Agreed. Any trades being mde should be two-fold:

    1) Able to help this year
    2) Able to help in the future

    Translation: No Kenny Rogers types.

    I like where the rotation is headed with Harang, Arroyo and Claussen. Not on the Milton bandwagon just yet. We definitely need relief pitching first. I would really hate to see what Pujols would do to Rick White.

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  3. #17
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44
    Agreed. Any trades being mde should be two-fold:

    1) Able to help this year
    2) Able to help in the future

    Translation: No Kenny Rogers types.

    I like where the rotation is headed with Harang, Arroyo and Claussen. Not on the Milton bandwagon just yet. We definitely need relief pitching first. I would really hate to see what Pujols would do to Rick White.
    At this point, all of our starters have had one good outing. Harang's last outing was better than it looked and was soiled by the relief corps stinking the joint up. If we can either get the relievers straightened out or bolster their ranks, I think we'll be in decent shape. Yesterday's game was certainly winnable. Of course, let's see how we do with the spunkier Cubs and with the Redbirds.

    I like how this rotation is shaping up. It's no as shabby as some folks make it out to be. And an improved Milton only helps!

  4. #18
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Couldnt agree with M2 more. This is the kind of thing that has killed this team. People just need look to next year and beyond. This teams pitching is still a very long ways away from seriously contending. I'm still not sold on Milton being any good this year and the bullpen everyone knows is flat out terrible. I dont want to see a single part for the future dealt to improve this year's bullpen.

  5. #19
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    While there may not be a "quick fix," I am a firm believer in rapid turnarounds. That may sound synonymous, but I don't think it is. One is a patch job, the other is a speedy, decisive, high-risk set of moves to overhaul the personnel.

    I think Krivsky's taking the latter approach, and I, for one, am glad. There is zero doubt in my mind that this team can be competitive by next season, with the right moves. And competitive WITH the long-term picture in mind all the while.

  6. #20
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    I say fix it and go for this year.

    First, Wagner and Shackleford can help us next week if we just make the call to the pen and get rid of some current BP fodder.

    Secondly, Paul Wilson may help us out with BP or moving Dave Williams to the pen.

    Thirdly, are guys like Lizard, Germano, etc.. at AAA guys that can help us out of the pen if they are not quite good enough as starters?

    Fourthly, we have some quality catchers and middle infielders we can peddle for what we can get. I just can't believe Larue or Valentin can't find us a really good BP arm.

    Finally and most costly, as Griffey continues to establish himself as a top level offensive player and proves he can stay healthy, there has to be a market for Griff. Any pitching help we get back or 1B offensive production Griff could bring in a trade, could offset the offensive loss of Griff and vastly improved CF defense.

    All in all, we have 5 options ranging from little help/or none to possibly greatly enhancing this team that won't severly damage the future of this club (Dunn, Harang, Lopez, EE, Clausen, Milton, Freel ) at the same time.

  7. #21
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    These team needs quality young arms, in the pen or rotation. Moving a Williams to the pen really solves nothing.

    Right now we really have no idea if Krivsky is in win now and try to build for next year or if he is willing to punt this season. His next few moves should answer the question.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  8. #22
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    I think Arroyo and Williams are an upgrade over last year (Hudson, Ortiz) and Wilson is getting ready in case of injury or if somebody flames out. So the starting pitching should be better, particularly if Milton does better. I would still trade for a starter, but only somebody with front of the rotation potential.

    The bullpen is another story. I like Coffey, Mercker and Weathers, but the other four guys are very shaky. I would prefer Shackelford to be with the club, but I think Wagner needs some AAA time. One or two bona fide relievers would really help the team.

    If the Reds could trade a catcher and an infielder for a good reliever or two, it would really help, particularly somebody relatively young, not the over 35 set.

  9. #23
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Looking at this bullpen make-up makes me long for the days of Scott Sullivan.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  10. #24
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    This divison sucks. Period. The Cardinals have a taken 3 steps back this offseason, the Pirates suck, the Astros are ok at best, and the Cubs and Brewers are both decent. Our offense is great, and I honestly think our rotation will be decent (I thought that before the year, this week had nothing do with this). If we can find a way to get a decent bullpen, we will have a legit shot to contend in the NL Central.

    I hope Krivs makes a move to get us some bullpen arms.
    Who is with me!?
    I like your enthusiasm about the Reds chances, but you're selling the cards too short way too early. STL has implemented a winning system that will continue to successfully interchange spare parts around its core of veteran talent. They are still solid in all facets and should easily get to 90 wins. I'll reserve judgment about the rest of the division, esp the Cubs and Astros, although I do believe both will have 84+ wins. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Central ends up being one of the better divisions in baseball.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  11. #25
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Central ends up being one of the better divisions in baseball.
    I have been saying this would be possible for a couple of years (obviously not on this board). I think this division has the chance of being the top division in MLB.

  12. #26
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat
    Um over reaction by you ? 3 months on the job heck even year 1 and he should be able to clear this mess that fast ? Just for giggles tell us how that can be accomplished?
    Overeraction? No, not at all. I never said Krivsky should have the mess that is currently the Reds cleaned up in three months or even a year. But if he ignores the bigger problems on this team, namely defense and starting pitching, and begins trading away what few resources he has to fix the bullpen, he should be relieved of his duties quickly. Fixing the bullpen first isn't going to help this team contend in '06 and beyond.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

    "...its money well-spent. Don't screw around with your freedom."
    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

  13. #27
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    going in, I thought that they needed a closer, two starters, two middle gloves. And for people to stay healthy, develop, and/or not get old

    They got a starter, a middle glove (if they play him), and can probably find another middle glove very easily.

    but it's going to be tough to find that team that wants to give up a young Joe Nathan plus two arms for Jason LaRue.

  14. #28
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    I guess I don't get why the high tag for Larue that some think will wreck the Reds future.

    If all we got for Larue was a Reitsma type BP guy and an additional Lefty specialist/or Single A prospect, isn't that a good get for what we need vs. what we have in surplus that doesn't wreck the future as well? Isn't the future really Dunn, Lopez, Freel, Ed E, Harang, Arroyo and Claussen with Kearns as a fringe guy?

    Furthermore, I still see no reason we can't hand the ball to Wagner, Shackleford and convert guys like Gosling/Lizard to BP guys and let White, Burns, Hammond DFA? I think that is an improvement and potentially could be a sizeable improvement. Hopefully Mercker, Weathers and Coffey can put solid years in...Paul Wilson gives you a potential spot starter if one of the 5 current starters needs a 15 day DL stay....I just see no reason to stand pat with a good offensive team, possibly average pitching that just needs some help out of the pen to stay in wildcard race.

  15. #29
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    I have been saying this would be possible for a couple of years (obviously not on this board). I think this division has the chance of being the top division in MLB.
    With the Nats and Marlins looking weak in the NL East (and I'm none too impressed by the Phillies either) I think the NL Central might be the strongest division in the NL. It could use another top flight team, but I think the bottom of the division is far tougher than the bottom of the East or West.

    In general I think the top of the NL is a little thin and that probably will create a situation like what we saw in 1999 where the best teams run away from everyone else and the playoff chase is only there for a select few.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #30
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    Re: With a move or two, we can contend

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    It's tough to say exactly what would put this team into contention, but as long as pitching talent, real honest to god pitching talent, comes in return, I don't care if it's bullpen or starting rotation. And outside of Dunn, I don't care who it takes to acquire it. I won't be too angry if the Reds don't contend this year, but they sure as hell better be ready by next season.

    I agree keep Dunn at all costs.


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