Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 83

Thread: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

  1. #61
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    6,255

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Can we please change the title of this thread. I keep reading it as Quinton McCrackenhand!
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    White Castle to the Nile Crash Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Tybee Island, GA
    Posts
    1,943

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    The worst starting positional players in MLB from 2005 have starting jobs on the right side of the Reds infield the majority of the time. Neither player does anything to help the offense versus an optimized configuration nor do the Reds gain a defensive advantage at any position as long as they're on the field. Those issues will, over the long haul, lead to Runs Scored and Runs Allowed bleed.

    And let's be clear- the Reds will not score 988 Runs this season (6.1 RPG- their current "pace") with the current offensive player strategy. The real kicker is that the better offensive roster options (Freel, Denorfia) also better optimize the defense at two positions (2B, LF) while we'd see a push (at worst) at a third (1B).

    While the Reds' 7-3 record may appear at first glace to be evidence of a successful plan, we need to ask ourselves whether or not the Reds can continue to expect success under said "plan".

    Unfortunately, the answer is "no" because, while the Reds are succeeding, they're succeeding "badly". The offense cannot continue at its current pace (6.1 RPG) while the pitching and defense is much closer to a more likely number (5.6 Runs Allowed per Game). The Reds offense is going to have a difficult time hitting the 800 RS mark while giving so many PA to Womack and Hatteberg. They're going to have a difficult time allowing fewer than 800 given the current state of the pitching staff and defensive configuration. When you're in that situation, optimizing the MLB roster does nothing but help.

    Is Krivsky "clueless" in the macro sense? I'm not ready to claim that. But he's shown no ability thusfar to optimize the offensive and defensive configuration of his roster when faced with slam-dunk-easy choices. In short, he's had "better" staring him straight in the face but decided on "worse" instead. That's everything but smart. Ten games in April doesn't change that.
    Well said. I think Krivsky's situation is more complex than you're making it out to be, but you laid out some sound reasoning for doing things differently.

    In Krivsky's defense, I would say the following:

    - The Reds scouts and coaches truly believe Dunn isn't ready for 1B defensively (as in, significantly worse than LF).

    - Womack was O'Brien's mistake. I don't think "cutting him" is as simplistic as redszone makes it out to be. He's due a sizable chunk of money. He has some uses on a team if employed correctly. It's not really a sign of a classy organization to trade for a veteran, tell him he has a legit shot to start at 2B, then turn around and cut him before he's had a chance to fumble away his opportunity.

    - As long as we're quoting Rob Neyer & his ilk re: Hatteberg
    To the Oakland A's front office, Hatteberg was a deeply satisfying scientific discovery. The things he did so peculiarly well at the plate were the things only science -- at any rate, closer than normal scrutiny -- could turn up. He was, in his approach to hitting, Billy Beane's opposite, but he was also Billy Beane's creation ...
    -- Michael Lewis, Moneyball
    Rob Neyer & Billy Beane

    "First," Beane says, "we're not looking at just a three-month period, we're looking at a two- or three-year period when we're evaluating Hatteberg. And we're also looking at who will become available, and what will be the cost of this player or that player. And if you're talking about free agents, you have to factor in the age of those free agents, and who could potentially be a non-tender."

    This wasn't really going anywhere, so I tried to hurry the conversation along.

    "So," says me, "you look at all the players out there who could play first base, and you have an Excel file, or whatever (assistant GM Paul) DePodesta uses, and you plug in how many runs they're going to save on defense, how many runs they're going to add with their baserunning and their hitting, and you're factoring in how many pitches they take ... all that stuff? And you figure nobody better than Hatteberg will be available for less than what you're going to pay him?"

    "But let me get subjective for a minute," Beane continues. "Scott deserves this, because he's a major part of the fabric of this team, from a subjective standpoint."

    And does he get a little bit of extra credit for being a known quantity (and, just maybe, for being one of the supporting characters in a certain best-selling book)?

    "Yeah, he has to. He gets extra credit for what he means to this team, to the players and the people around him."

    The bottom line, for Billy Beane and the people who work for him?

    "We have our reasons."
    Hopefully, it will all work out in the end. I'd like to see Denorfia in CF, Griffey happily accepting LF, Freel leading off at 2B and Dunn playing at least average defense at 1B. But I realize there are some complications in all of these scenarios. I wish it was easier.
    "I fought because I understood and could not bear to understand, that it was my destiny -- unlike that of my father, whose fate it was to hear the roar of the crowd -- to sit in the stands with most men and acclaim others. It was my fate, my destiny, my end, to be a fan."

  4. #63
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Dunn ain't never getting better at 1B by playing LF. Today with Pujols the Reds got first hand evidence how quickly someone with some athleticism can adjust to a new position if allowed to stay there. In two seasons he has gone from barely adequate to quite good. There is zero reason to believe that Dunn wouldn't make a similar transition.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #64
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    9,397

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Davis
    Well said. I think Krivsky's situation is more complex than you're making it out to be, but you laid out some sound reasoning for doing things differently.

    In Krivsky's defense, I would say the following:

    - The Reds scouts and coaches truly believe Dunn isn't ready for 1B defensively (as in, significantly worse than LF).

    - Womack was O'Brien's mistake. I don't think "cutting him" is as simplistic as redszone makes it out to be. He's due a sizable chunk of money. He has some uses on a team if employed correctly. It's not really a sign of a classy organization to trade for a veteran, tell him he has a legit shot to start at 2B, then turn around and cut him before he's had a chance to fumble away his opportunity.
    If Reds scouts think that Scott Hatteberg is a better option at 1B defensively versus Adam Dunn, then Wayne Krivsky has some termination papers to write up. Frankly, considering that Jerry Narron thinks that the best possible alignment includes the two worst players at their respective positions, another notice of termination should be in the pipeline.

    - As long as we're quoting Rob Neyer & his ilk re: Hatteberg
    Not sure how a 'Moneyball' quote applies a few years later considering that Billy Beane ridded himself of Hatteberg (a move Neyer rightly backs) after last season. He's not the same player. That was obvious last season. I'd also like to see the time frame of the second quote you posted.

    Hopefully, it will all work out in the end. I'd like to see Denorfia in CF, Griffey happily accepting LF, Freel leading off at 2B and Dunn playing at least average defense at 1B. But I realize there are some complications in all of these scenarios. I wish it was easier.
    The only complications are those imposed by the person (Krivsky) responsible for the roster configuration. Womack could have very easily been released- particularly considering the cash Krivsky has spent on players like Quinton McCracken and Scott Hatteberg as they represent the actual cost of one Tony Womack. Again, Krivsky had the right answers staring him in the face and he chose to go with a sub-optimal offensive and defensive configuration.

    Those scenarios were only complicated by Krivsky's inability to determine right from wrong. Again, I'm not going to call "idiot" on a guy who still may have the ability to right the wrongs he created, but not being smart from the get-go isn't going to earn Krivsky any points from this poster.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  6. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    1,002

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    I don't see how Womack is represented in Hatterberg or McCracken. Womack is a middle infielder and Hatterberg and McCracken are respectively a 1B and OF. Yes releasing Womack would clear up some issues for REDSZONE but then you would still be signing Hatterberg and McCracken and maybe have both Kata and Phillips.

    McCracken was given the call up as many thought he would once he was healthy. The main reason why Abad was brought north was that he could be released without too many problems. Also he can play all outfield positions so rather than shuffling in the outfield if he comes on it will be a straight replacement.

  7. #66
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    17,584

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Dunn ain't never getting better at 1B by playing LF. Today with Pujols the Reds got first hand evidence how quickly someone with some athleticism can adjust to a new position if allowed to stay there. In two seasons he has gone from barely adequate to quite good. There is zero reason to believe that Dunn wouldn't make a similar transition.
    The Reds organization likes to drag its feet on these type of moves though, and then doesn't stick with them long enough after they make them. It has been that way for as long as I can remember.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  8. #67
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    55,717

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    So Dunn to 1st in 2020?
    Go Gators!

  9. #68
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    The Reds organization likes to drag its feet on these type of moves though, and then doesn't stick with them long enough after they make them. It has been that way for as long as I can remember.
    which sortof points to a lack of a long term plan, doesn't it? The only reason they would not want to consider a Dunn to 1b solution is if they are sold that Votto will be ready next year and is going to turn out to be a very good hitter.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #69
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,713

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Dunn already can play an average first base. He filled in fine there the last couple of years. If its because he fussed and doesn't want to play there, shame on the Reds for not telling their player that they will decide who plays what position.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  11. #70
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    17,584

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Dunn already can play an average first base. He filled in fine there the last couple of years. If its because he fussed and doesn't want to play there, shame on the Reds for not telling their player that they will decide who plays what position.
    I sure hope it's not another case of the inmates running the asylum. I've got to feel that this is the Reds' doing, and not because Dunn doesn't want to play first.

    Soriano doesn't want to play outfield in Washington, but he is. I hope that the Reds front office has as much or more control on these type of decisions than the red headed stepson of MLB.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  12. #71
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,866

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    which sortof points to a lack of a long term plan, doesn't it? The only reason they would not want to consider a Dunn to 1b solution is if they are sold that Votto will be ready next year and is going to turn out to be a very good hitter.
    No, I think it's obvious that Krivsky's long-term plan involves Dunn playing left field. He walked in and got that multi-year deal done in, what, less than a week? And shortly thereafter, we stopped hearing about Dunn playing first base. If that's how Kriv sees it, then Dunn's going to stay in left and he'll deal with the short-term roster goofiness in turn. And it's exactly that, short term. The proposed benefits of moving Dunn to first base are based on a roster mix that's likely to be altered by the trade deadline if not sooner. Kearns could be gone, Griffey could be gone, Freel could be gone. And if not at the deadline, then over the offseason.

    I don't know who next year's first baseman will be; it could be Griffey if he's not on another club by then, or it could be someone in another organization right now. It's just one more item on a long checklist, and first basemen are as easily found as left fielders.
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

  13. #72
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed
    Kearns could be gone, Griffey could be gone, Freel could be gone. And if not at the deadline, then over the offseason.
    They better get some OFs back because outside of Denorfia the system is barren above low A ball.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #73
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,182

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Griffey at 1B and Denorfia or Freel in CF just makes way too much sense. Dunn would be tolerable in LF if we had a CF with good range. Narron mentioned it a few days ago (Mantle played 1B at the end of his career, but Griffey isn't at the end of his career...), but I'm curious if Junior is really opposed to moving or it's just a situation where nobody wants to disprespect him by asking.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-17-2006 at 02:02 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #74
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick
    Griffey at 1B and Denorfia or Freel in CF just makes way too much sense. Dunn would be tolerable in LF if we had a CF with good range.
    Yep. The Reds really need to find a very good defensive center fielder to play alongside Dunn if the long-term plan has him playing LF.
    Last edited by BRM; 04-17-2006 at 02:09 PM.

  16. #75
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Dayton Area
    Posts
    8,471

    Re: Reds promote outfielder Quinton McCrackenand other Reds moves.

    Joey Votto at first base next year would be a wonderful thing - however - unlike LaRussa and Pujois, Narron's not going just to stick him out there every day.

    IIRC, Pujois had a very good spring and played one year of three-level minors.

    So, then a lineup would have -

    Votto-1b
    Freel-2b
    Lopez-SS
    EdE-3B
    Dunn-LF
    Griffey-CF
    Kearns-RF
    LaRue-C

    Denorfia would still probably play 2-3 games a week.
    Last edited by Heath; 04-17-2006 at 02:28 PM.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25