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Thread: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Listening to the big one, and I heard these words escape from Marty's mouth...

    "I don't know that Adam Dunn will ever be any good with runners in scoring position."

    Why is Marty against our best player? Thoughts anyone?

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Edit. Dunn is the man.
    Last edited by OnBaseMachine; 04-16-2006 at 10:33 PM.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    Listening to the big one, and I heard these words escape from Marty's mouth...

    "I don't know that Adam Dunn will ever be any good with runners in scoring position."

    Why is Marty against our best player? Thoughts anyone?
    Dunn isn't the best player, and anyone who thinks that has a very skewed view of baseball. He's a glorified role player. Sure, the guy has tons of power and is probably the guy in the lineup who causes the most concern for opposing pitchers, but he is becoming way too one dimensional.

    I'm not going to stand on a strikeout soapbox, but once in a while I'd like to see him learn to choke up and put the ball in play in the right situations. If he could do that, and get his walking eye back, he'd really be one of the best in baseball.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    He has turned into Dave Kingman on us in the past 5 games or.
    Five games, Five Games, five games, everytime he hits a skid his K's go up his BA goes down and everyone ponders and Dave freaking Kingmans name creeps up.

    Last year we kicked it around

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35912

    FWIW Mike Schmidt age 26 April and May (.164/.253/ .299 67 ab's)(.198/ .294/396 96 ab's)

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    but once in a while I'd like to see him learn to choke up and put the ball in play in the right situations.
    Paul O'Neil scoffed at that same suggestion when someone said the same thing about Giambi, his retort was, "Jason Giambi got here doing what he does best, asking him to change an approach that works for him is possibly asking him to get out of a comfort zone, and that's not what you want."

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    Dunn isn't the best player, and anyone who thinks that has a very skewed view of baseball. He's a glorified role player. Sure, the guy has tons of power and is probably the guy in the lineup who causes the most concern for opposing pitchers, but he is becoming way too one dimensional.

    I'm not going to stand on a strikeout soapbox, but once in a while I'd like to see him learn to choke up and put the ball in play in the right situations. If he could do that, and get his walking eye back, he'd really be one of the best in baseball.

    So who's the Reds' best position player? Freel? Lopez? Kearns? EE? Junior?

    Apparently I have a very skewed view of baseball since I firmly think Dunn's our best player, and has been for at least the last two seasons, maybe even three.

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Paul O'Neil scoffed at that same suggestion when someone said the same thing about Giambi, his retort was, "Jason Giambi got here doing what he does best, asking him to change an approach that works for him is possibly asking him to get out of a comfort zone, and that's not what you want."

    Precisely. That makes Dunn a glorified role player.

    Right now, Adam Dunn is a very good offensive threat but he isn't a complete player, and he shows no signs whatsoever of becoming one. He'll hit his homeruns and be a very good complementary piece, and that's it. Not hardly worth the money he's going to make if you ask me.

    He really does have a chance to be as complete a hitter as Pujols or as feared a hitter as Bonds, but he doesn't seem to want to be. He wants to swing hard and put on a show. I don't like that.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    So who's the Reds' best position player? Freel? Lopez? Kearns? EE? Junior?

    Apparently I have a very skewed view of baseball since I firmly think Dunn's our best player, and has been for at least the last two seasons, maybe even three.
    Best all-around player? Lopez, and it's not even close.

    Please don't get me wrong. Dunn is the best power weapon, but that's not the same as best player. FeLo is the best player and MVP. He does well in all te offensive stats and when the time comes, he can increase the odds of scoring a key run with "smallball" (I hate that term.)
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Right now, Adam Dunn is a very good offensive threat but he isn't a complete player, and he shows no signs whatsoever of becoming one. He'll hit his homeruns and be a very good complementary piece, and that's it. Not hardly worth the money he's going to make if you ask me.
    No, right now he's Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard or Joe Adcock.

    A glorified power hitter and on base machine who plays a corner position and produces a huge amount of runs, if you don't like him because he's not Bobby Tolan or George Bret that's fine.

    But there is a place for guys like Dunn.

    Just ask Thome.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Another thing about Dunn that so often slips through cracks... he's young.

    5th most trips to the plate for a Reds player before the age of 26, behind Pinson, Bench, Robby and Hoblitzell (deadball 1stbaseman)

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    Best all-around player? Lopez, and it's not even close.

    Please don't get me wrong. Dunn is the best power weapon, but that's not the same as best player. FeLo is the best player and MVP. He does well in all te offensive stats and when the time comes, he can increase the odds of scoring a key run with "smallball" (I hate that term.)

    Last year, Lopez was 3rd in both offensive winshares and total winshares, as well as RC behind Dunn and Griffey respectively. I still use winshares and RC as the benchmark for judging a player, and until Lopez challenges for that #1 spot in either offensive winshares or RC, I can't put him any higher on a "best" player list than #2.

    As for defensive winshares, Dunn and Lopez both suffer dramatically, as Lopez is arguably one of the worst defensive SS in the entire game, and we all know of Dunn's defensive struggles so far in 2006. I know both of them had less than 3 defensive winshares last year, and I want to say Dunn was even below 2.

    Lopez is a pest offensively for opposing pitchers, but he's not in the SS mold of a Tejada/Jeter/ARod, so I don't know how Lopez can compete with Dunn for the title of Best Red.

    This isn't a rant to tear down Lopez, but more of a question as to why Dunn's perceived value is less than Lopez?

    Believe me, I'm glad we have both on our team, but I think Dunn is more valuable right now. Maybe once we obtain a better defensive SS, or move BP over to SS and Lopez to 2B, then maybe Lopez will fight for that Best Red title.

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    I'm a Dunn fan, I like him, I'm glad they locked him up.

    He's 1-15 with RISP so far this season...I'm sorry, but that's not good.

    (make that 2-16 after his 2 run HR )
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 04-16-2006 at 03:45 PM.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    IMO he's being "coached" to swing more with runners on, pitchers have picked it up and aren't going to throw him anything he can hit if he gets himself out on ball 4.

    Oh..and Dunn has been in Marty's doghouse since 2002
    Go Gators!

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    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Another thing about Dunn that so often slips through cracks... he's young.
    Yep and IIRC, he won't won't enter his prime age 27/28 peak years until next season.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
    --Former Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on why he didn't fly Josh Hamilton to Colorado for one game.

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    --Roy Tucker, on why you need to lawyer up when you find yourself swimming with sharks.

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    Re: Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

    Adam Dunn is what he is. He is going to hit 50 HR's, have 100 RBI's, Walk 100 times and strike out 150 times. He is the definition of non-clutch.

    Last 3 years with RISP.
    2004
    G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG
    127 142 62 34 12 0 9 56 48 46 2 0 .239
    2005
    127 129 71 32 9 0 11 62 51 40 1 1 .248
    2006
    11 13 6 1 0 0 0 3 2 7 0 0 .077
    On the other Hand
    Rich Aurilia

    2005 RISP
    G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG
    88 108 47 37 10 0 5 54 11 11 2 0 .343

    2006
    8 8 4 3 0 0 2 7 1 1 0 0 .375

    makes you think about who you'd want up to bat in the bottom of the 9th in game 7 of the World Series in a tie game huh??
    Last edited by 2001MUgrad; 04-16-2006 at 05:39 PM.
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