Why is Dunn in Marty's doghouse?

[Highlifeman21]

Listening to the big one, and I heard these words escape from Marty's mouth...

"I don't know that Adam Dunn will ever be any good with runners in scoring position."

Why is Marty against our best player? Thoughts anyone?

[OnBaseMachine]

Edit. Dunn is the man.

[icehole3]

I can't blame Marty anymore.

Dunn is horrible this year. He has turned into Dave Kingman on us in the past 5 games or. I can't believe I just said that but it's true. He is swinging at everything. Just roll him a pitch in the dirt and he'll bite.

Blasphemy...mention Dunn and Kingman in the same sentence will get you in deep doo doo around here. Never ever mention those two together.

:

[OnBaseMachine]

Blasphemy...mention Dunn and Kingman in the same sentence will get you in deep doo doo around here. Never ever mention those two together.

:

There is no comparison between Dunn and Kingman. Adam Dunn is one of the elite hitters in baseball. He walks a lot more than Kingman and he gets on base at a much better clip. Dunn has never posted an OBP below .354. Kingman never posted an OBP above .343.

The only thing I said was, Dunn has been chasing a ton of pitches out of the zone in the last few games and not drawing walks, thus making him a Kingman clone in the last three games.

Dave Kingman was a free-swinging slugger. Adam Dunn is one of the game's elite hitters.

[guttle11]

Listening to the big one, and I heard these words escape from Marty's mouth...

"I don't know that Adam Dunn will ever be any good with runners in scoring position."

Why is Marty against our best player? Thoughts anyone?

Dunn isn't the best player, and anyone who thinks that has a very skewed view of baseball. He's a glorified role player. Sure, the guy has tons of power and is probably the guy in the lineup who causes the most concern for opposing pitchers, but he is becoming way too one dimensional.

I'm not going to stand on a strikeout soapbox, but once in a while I'd like to see him learn to choke up and put the ball in play in the right situations. If he could do that, and get his walking eye back, he'd really be one of the best in baseball.

[Highlifeman21]

Dunn isn't the best player, and anyone who thinks that has a very skewed view of baseball. He's a glorified role player. Sure, the guy has tons of power and is probably the guy in the lineup who causes the most concern for opposing pitchers, but he is becoming way too one dimensional.

I'm not going to stand on a strikeout soapbox, but once in a while I'd like to see him learn to choke up and put the ball in play in the right situations. If he could do that, and get his walking eye back, he'd really be one of the best in baseball.

So who's the Reds' best position player? Freel? Lopez? Kearns? EE? Junior?

Apparently I have a very skewed view of baseball since I firmly think Dunn's our best player, and has been for at least the last two seasons, maybe even three.

[guttle11]

So who's the Reds' best position player? Freel? Lopez? Kearns? EE? Junior?

Apparently I have a very skewed view of baseball since I firmly think Dunn's our best player, and has been for at least the last two seasons, maybe even three.

Best all-around player? Lopez, and it's not even close.

Please don't get me wrong. Dunn is the best power weapon, but that's not the same as best player. FeLo is the best player and MVP. He does well in all te offensive stats and when the time comes, he can increase the odds of scoring a key run with "smallball" (I hate that term.)

[Highlifeman21]

Best all-around player? Lopez, and it's not even close.

Please don't get me wrong. Dunn is the best power weapon, but that's not the same as best player. FeLo is the best player and MVP. He does well in all te offensive stats and when the time comes, he can increase the odds of scoring a key run with "smallball" (I hate that term.)

Last year, Lopez was 3rd in both offensive winshares and total winshares, as well as RC behind Dunn and Griffey respectively. I still use winshares and RC as the benchmark for judging a player, and until Lopez challenges for that #1 spot in either offensive winshares or RC, I can't put him any higher on a "best" player list than #2.

As for defensive winshares, Dunn and Lopez both suffer dramatically, as Lopez is arguably one of the worst defensive SS in the entire game, and we all know of Dunn's defensive struggles so far in 2006. I know both of them had less than 3 defensive winshares last year, and I want to say Dunn was even below 2.

Lopez is a pest offensively for opposing pitchers, but he's not in the SS mold of a Tejada/Jeter/ARod, so I don't know how Lopez can compete with Dunn for the title of Best Red.

This isn't a rant to tear down Lopez, but more of a question as to why Dunn's perceived value is less than Lopez?

Believe me, I'm glad we have both on our team, but I think Dunn is more valuable right now. Maybe once we obtain a better defensive SS, or move BP over to SS and Lopez to 2B, then maybe Lopez will fight for that Best Red title.

[big boy]

Lopez is arguably one of the worst defensive SS

Lopez is one of the worst? This year? I would be interested in seeing the list and his place on it if you have it.

[aodaniel]

So who's the Reds' best position player? Freel? Lopez? Kearns? EE? Junior?

Apparently I have a very skewed view of baseball since I firmly think Dunn's our best player, and has been for at least the last two seasons, maybe even three.

Remember when Dunn first came to the bigs? He killed pitching at the AA, AAA, and even the majors that year, hitting over .300 at each minor league level and hitting a combined 50 homeruns. He kept it up until the allstar break of the next season at the major league level, hitting over .300 for the first half of the season. Then after the break he had a horrible second half as far as batting average goes, and he's hit well below .300 ever since. Seems like he got caught up in the glory associated with the long ball and swings for the fences every time now.

[westofyou]

He has turned into Dave Kingman on us in the past 5 games or.

Five games, Five Games, five games, everytime he hits a skid his K's go up his BA goes down and everyone ponders and Dave freaking Kingmans name creeps up.

Last year we kicked it around

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35912

FWIW Mike Schmidt age 26 April and May (.164/.253/ .299 67 ab's)(.198/ .294/396 96 ab's)

[Team Clark]

Five games, Five Games, five games, everytime he hits a skid his K's go up his BA goes down and everyone ponders and Dave freaking Kingmans name creeps up.

Last year we kicked it around

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35912

FWIW Mike Schmidt age 26 April and May (.164/.253/ .299 67 ab's)(.198/ .294/396 96 ab's)

I really liked Dave Kingman's baseball cards. Big, scary looking guy.

[westofyou]

but once in a while I'd like to see him learn to choke up and put the ball in play in the right situations.

Paul O'Neil scoffed at that same suggestion when someone said the same thing about Giambi, his retort was, "Jason Giambi got here doing what he does best, asking him to change an approach that works for him is possibly asking him to get out of a comfort zone, and that's not what you want."

[guttle11]

Paul O'Neil scoffed at that same suggestion when someone said the same thing about Giambi, his retort was, "Jason Giambi got here doing what he does best, asking him to change an approach that works for him is possibly asking him to get out of a comfort zone, and that's not what you want."

Precisely. That makes Dunn a glorified role player.

Right now, Adam Dunn is a very good offensive threat but he isn't a complete player, and he shows no signs whatsoever of becoming one. He'll hit his homeruns and be a very good complementary piece, and that's it. Not hardly worth the money he's going to make if you ask me.

He really does have a chance to be as complete a hitter as Pujols or as feared a hitter as Bonds, but he doesn't seem to want to be. He wants to swing hard and put on a show. I don't like that.

[westofyou]

Right now, Adam Dunn is a very good offensive threat but he isn't a complete player, and he shows no signs whatsoever of becoming one. He'll hit his homeruns and be a very good complementary piece, and that's it. Not hardly worth the money he's going to make if you ask me.

No, right now he's Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard or Joe Adcock.

A glorified power hitter and on base machine who plays a corner position and produces a huge amount of runs, if you don't like him because he's not Bobby Tolan or George Bret that's fine.

But there is a place for guys like Dunn.

Just ask Thome.