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Thread: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

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    Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ard/index.html

    This is a pretty interesting article about Edmonds chances of making the Hall. People seem to have pretty strong opinions here on Edmonds so I thought you all might have something to say. I can't imagine him having a shot because while he has been impressively consistent, he never had that huge peak that is needed. As noted in the article, there are only two years in his career where you can say that he was the best player on his team.

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    Sure he is. He's better than Willie Mays, just ask Cards fans.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    I bet Georgie-Porgie has some strong feelings on this subject.
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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    IMO Edmonds is a borderline candidate. If his career ended now, he would not make the HOF, but, as the article pointed out, he isa entering a gray area. A few more strong seasons could put him in the Hall.
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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    No.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    IIRC, Jim Edmonds had around 265 winshares through 2005. Also, according to Retrosheet, he had 36.6 Batter-Fielder Wins through 2005. While his career lines of .383 OBP and .542 SLG are respectable, he still only has roughly over 1600 H in roughly the same time frame of Games Played (1600). While that itself is a neat parlor stat of roughly 1 hit per game played, I don't think he's really in consideration until he breaks the 2500 H plateau, IMO.

    Sure, there will be people saying he should get more of the Ozzie Smith defensive consideration, but I want and challenge someone to justify every one of Edmonds' gold gloves. While I think he takes good routes to balls, and seems to get an above average break on them, I think his arm is suspect, and it's no secret he slows up to make diving/highlight film plays.

    As of right now, no, Jim Edmonds isn't a HOF for me.

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    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    He needs another two maybe three years of production like he's had the last 5 years. Otherwise, no!

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    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    even though the year is very young, what i've seen of him, he's not looking very solid so far...that said, he's at least 3 to 4 solid years away from making the hall...i don't think it's in the "cards" for him

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    Right now, I wouldn't put him in, though he's greater than some center fielders already in the Hall (Earle Combs and Lloyd Waner, to name a few), and he compares very well to several players already in the Hall (Max Carey, Hack Wilson, Earl Averill, Kirby Puckett, Larry Doby and Richie Ashburn). Then again, Dale Murphy fits much of that same criteria himself, and he's not in, same with Jimmy Wynn, who is probably even a better candidate than Murphy and Edmonds (so far). There's also even more players not in the Hall/still active who are in a similar grouping, guys such as Vada Pinson, Wally Berger and Bernie Williams.

    Basically, Edmonds is in a group of about a dozen guys or so that are all borderline candidates. Roughly half are in, and Edmonds is no different being borderline himself right now.

    Two more good seasons from Edmonds, however, and it's tough not to put him in since he'll likely rank higher than every one of those players listed above. In fact, if Edmonds has two more seasons of about 30 win shares each then he'll have a good argument to rank among the top 10 center fielders ever, and that is a clear Hall of Famer.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 04-22-2006 at 05:52 PM.
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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    Maybe an Academy Award, but no hall of fame.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    It's not the Hall of the Very Good.

    I think Edmonds "Most similiar batters by Age 35" speaks volumes about whether or not he should get in.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/fr...age&compage=35

    Code:
    Sim  Player              From  To Yrs   G    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO    BA   OBP   SLG   SB   CS OPS+ 
    +---++-------------------+---------+--+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+
          Jim Edmonds         1993-2005 13 1587  5557 1063 1619 362  21 331  998  825 1411  .291  .384  .543   59  46  138
     906  Tim Salmon          1992-2004 13 1596  5723  956 1618 331  22 290  989  941 1316  .283  .386  .500   48  40  129
     896  Ellis Burks         1987-2000 14 1672  6044 1045 1770 334  61 285 1012  657 1093  .293  .364  .510  171  79  125
     894  Dick Allen          1963-1977 15 1749  6332 1099 1848 320  79 351 1119  894 1556  .292  .378  .534  133  52  156
     892  Fred Lynn           1974-1987 14 1648  5985  955 1732 360  40 264  986  755  919  .289  .368  .495   67  51  133
     883  Mo Vaughn           1991-2003 12 1512  5532  861 1620 270  10 328 1064  725 1429  .293  .383  .523   30  18  132
     878* Willie Stargell     1962-1975 14 1753  6164  956 1750 336  49 368 1197  718 1497  .284  .361  .533   12  12  150
     874  Reggie Smith        1966-1980 15 1840  6649 1067 1914 351  57 295 1028  837  976  .288  .366  .491  130  86  138
     869  Larry Walker        1989-2002 14 1663  5880 1152 1863 410  50 335 1133  725 1023  .317  .398  .574  215  71  141
     864  David Justice       1989-2001 13 1492  5227  875 1465 262  21 294  968  833  933  .280  .378  .507   49  45  130
     861  Paul O'Neill        1985-1998 14 1621  5645  815 1639 353  16 223  989  727  928  .290  .369  .477   94  52  126
          Jim Edmonds         1993-2005 13 1587  5557 1063 1619 362  21 331  998  825 1411  .291  .384  .543   59  46  138
    +---++-------------------+---------+--+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+
     Average of all 10 Players          13 1654  5918  978 1721 332  40 303 1048  781 1167  .291  .374  .515   94  50  134
     Avg of all 8 Retired Players       13 1660  5947  959 1717 323  41 301 1045  768 1166  .289  .370  .509   85  49  134
    Would you put Tim Salmon or Ellis Burks in the Hall?

    Willie Stargell is on that list, and his numbers are similiar when he played in one of the most pitching dominant eras in the history of baseball. Edmonds has racked up his stats in the steroid era.
    Last edited by jmcclain19; 04-22-2006 at 06:42 PM.

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    Maybe an Academy Award, but no hall of fame.


    My serious answer - No. But as others have said, another three years of 900+ OPS production and my stance may change. He looks terrible at the plate this year so hopefully his career is wrapping up.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  14. #13
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    The St. Louis version of Jim Edmonds is HOF caliber, IMO. The problem is that pre-St. Louis Edmonds was not HOF caliber and that's almost half his career. And he turns 36 in June and he had a 100 point drop in OPS last year so he's likely starting the ineitable decline in his career.

    But his 5 year stretch from 2000-2004 is HOF caliber. IMO, he was the best CF in the game over that stretch. But that's not enough for the HOF, IMO.

  15. #14
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19
    It's not the Hall of the Very Good.

    I think Edmonds "Most similiar batters by Age 35" speaks volumes about whether or not he should get in.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/fr...age&compage=35

    Code:
    Sim  Player              From  To Yrs   G    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO    BA   OBP   SLG   SB   CS OPS+ 
    +---++-------------------+---------+--+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+
          Jim Edmonds         1993-2005 13 1587  5557 1063 1619 362  21 331  998  825 1411  .291  .384  .543   59  46  138
     906  Tim Salmon          1992-2004 13 1596  5723  956 1618 331  22 290  989  941 1316  .283  .386  .500   48  40  129
     896  Ellis Burks         1987-2000 14 1672  6044 1045 1770 334  61 285 1012  657 1093  .293  .364  .510  171  79  125
     894  Dick Allen          1963-1977 15 1749  6332 1099 1848 320  79 351 1119  894 1556  .292  .378  .534  133  52  156
     892  Fred Lynn           1974-1987 14 1648  5985  955 1732 360  40 264  986  755  919  .289  .368  .495   67  51  133
     883  Mo Vaughn           1991-2003 12 1512  5532  861 1620 270  10 328 1064  725 1429  .293  .383  .523   30  18  132
     878* Willie Stargell     1962-1975 14 1753  6164  956 1750 336  49 368 1197  718 1497  .284  .361  .533   12  12  150
     874  Reggie Smith        1966-1980 15 1840  6649 1067 1914 351  57 295 1028  837  976  .288  .366  .491  130  86  138
     869  Larry Walker        1989-2002 14 1663  5880 1152 1863 410  50 335 1133  725 1023  .317  .398  .574  215  71  141
     864  David Justice       1989-2001 13 1492  5227  875 1465 262  21 294  968  833  933  .280  .378  .507   49  45  130
     861  Paul O'Neill        1985-1998 14 1621  5645  815 1639 353  16 223  989  727  928  .290  .369  .477   94  52  126
          Jim Edmonds         1993-2005 13 1587  5557 1063 1619 362  21 331  998  825 1411  .291  .384  .543   59  46  138
    +---++-------------------+---------+--+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+
     Average of all 10 Players          13 1654  5918  978 1721 332  40 303 1048  781 1167  .291  .374  .515   94  50  134
     Avg of all 8 Retired Players       13 1660  5947  959 1717 323  41 301 1045  768 1166  .289  .370  .509   85  49  134
    Would you put Tim Salmon or Ellis Burks in the Hall?

    Willie Stargell is on that list, and his numbers are similiar when he played in one of the most pitching dominant eras in the history of baseball. Edmonds has racked up his stats in the steroid era.
    Here's the prime problem with the most similar "batters" group:

    Tim Salmon - right fielder
    Ellis Burks - center fielder, but Edmonds blows him away
    Dick Allen - first baseman, and character issues notwithstanding, belongs in the Hall
    Fred Lynn - the only center fielder in the list close to Edmonds. Edmonds blows him away in a five-year peak, and he's has already matched him in career value
    Mo Vaughn - first baseman
    Willie Stargell - clear HOFer
    Reggie Smith - right fielder
    Larry Walker - right fielder
    David Justice - right fielder
    Paul O'Neill - right fielder

    Notice a trend ... only two of the 10 above even played center field, and none played a more important defensive position than center field (i.e. no catchers or middle infielders on the list).

    Other than Willie Stargell and Dick Allen, who were both ridiculous hitters, none of those other guys comes close to Edmonds once accounting for a positional adjustment. If Jim Edmonds was a right fielder, he clearly wouldn't belong, but being a center fielder gives him a large trump card on all those guys with the exception of Lynn and Burks, both of whom Edmonds clearly ranks higher than anyway. The other eight players all played positions much less important on the defensive spectrum.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all a fan of Jim Edmonds. I wish he would have stayed in the American League, and I wouldn't put him in the Hall right now. However, to compare him fairly one has to look primarily at other center fielders, and once doing that it's obvious that Edmonds has been a better player than most people give him credit for. Two more seasons in the 25+ win shares category, and it's pretty tough to keep him out. Two more seasons with 30+ win shares and it's impossible to keep him out.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 04-22-2006 at 07:31 PM.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

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    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Jim Edmonds, Hall of Famer?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Sure he is. He's better than Willie Mays, just ask Cards fans.
    Ok...I'm here...you can ask me.


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