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Thread: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

  1. #91
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    Judging by this thread - maybe its time for a JA picture right about now.

    That seems to be the topic within a topic.



    Carry on...
    I happily take credit for the topic within a topic (though not with a pic), probably my only worthwhile contribution to this site in the year and a half I have sullied it with my presence...

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  3. #92
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Jessica again:

    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #93
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    A Homer Bailey gem then debauchery thereafter, what a thread

  5. #94
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by tbball10
    I don't understand all the talk of the Reds' system being cursed. Nothing Homer Bailey has done, or will ever do, is a result of Howington, Gruler, Gardner, Pauly or any other injured Reds' pitching prospect. Homer has been very consistent this year, and I expect him to have a great season, although I'm not going to kill myself if his ERA gets close to 4 like some people on here may do. Most importantly he needs to stay healthy, and keep progressing, because he has serious Major League stuff. Those of you who aren't "excited" about him, obviously have not seen him pitch in person. Because I saw him dominate the Major League Pirates in ST this year for about 3 innings, and it was enough to make any Reds fan very excited about what kind of pitcher Cincinnati will have in a couple years.
    Great start for Homer, and let's hope for more to come!!
    The start that the Pirates are off to is not indicating a major league team

    Of course, some value objective performance indicators over personal anecdotal evidence that often has the problem of subjectivity, esp. when trying to evaluate the context of "dominate" from a visual perspective during a ST game of a really bad offensive team.

    Why is it so wrong to set a legitimate standard of an ERA in the 2s, or at worst the low 3s, a WHIP under 1, a K rate of at least one per inning since we're talking about a power pitcher, and a walk rate around 2 per 9 for someone being touted as a future ace? Is that an unreasonable performance standard? Or is all we do is say "yea, but you gotta see his stuff," and fold our hands and start praying. It seems to me if there's stuff, there will be performance. If not, there isn't "stuff," whatever that means, at least that's going to do our favorite team any good, .
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  6. #95
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread
    Today's performance is really encouraging. I hope to see Bailey go at least 5/6 innings in 4-5 more starts, then gradually see if he can stretch out to 6/7 innings consistently. He is definitely progressing the way the Reds have mapped out his development. If you don't want to take my word for it, talk to player development people in the organization who express optimism, not disappointment regarding Bailey. Casual fans that cannot see his improvement come across as willfullly ignorant.
    Appeal to authority, an authority with the Reds org. track record on developing pitching talent? That's rich. And then coupling that with a call of ignorance to those still skeptical about Bailey's chances of fulfilling the great expectations many are placing on his back? That is some funny stuff.
    Can't win with 'em

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  7. #96
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    TR....the past is just that....the past. The same people arent in place. You can say history this and history that, but the same people are not there. So pretty much its just a faulty statement to say it wont happen or isnt likely to happen because the past Reds havent done well with it.

  8. #97
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    TR....the past is just that....the past. The same people arent in place. You can say history this and history that, but the same people are not there. So pretty much its just a faulty statement to say it wont happen or isnt likely to happen because the past Reds havent done well with it.
    So the Reds replaced each and every person in development? No holdovers? All new philosophies, both mental and mechanical? I know there hasn't been that much turnover. Hopefully, the main folks have been dumped, but to expect that the track record is suddenly wiped clean with an owner and GM that have been on the job for a few months? Come on, Doug. While there have been some pleasant changes thus far, you know there has not been enough time to churn out all the bad apples.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  9. #98
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    No they didnt replace everyone, but Bailey isnt working with everyone. Mental has what to do with having arm injuries? I think pitch counts are a very good idea, and well they obviously werent in place with guys like Howington, where Bailey is at a very strict 90 pitch count this year. I mean who was the last young Reds pitcher to get hurt? Gardner....a year and a half ago? Surely some of the same guys are in place along the line somewhere, but just as much as you want to believe something bad is coming, you need to see that the same chance is that nothing is going to happen.

  10. #99
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    So the Reds replaced each and every person in development? No holdovers? All new philosophies, both mental and mechanical? I know there hasn't been that much turnover. Hopefully, the main folks have been dumped, but to expect that the track record is suddenly wiped clean with an owner and GM that have been on the job for a few months? Come on, Doug. While there have been some pleasant changes thus far, you know there has not been enough time to churn out all the bad apples.
    That's a broad generalization, and a shallow one, I suspect. Do you know the names of all of these employees? If you feel that the Reds organization is that mediocre, why do you support the parent team?
    I don't need an answer to these questions, I just think you are unaware of how negative and pessimistic your viewpoint is.

  11. #100
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by cincyinco
    What is a DOM 4 or 5 start on Shandler's scale? Perhaps I can be enlightened.
    I, too, am a little perplexed. This is a new one for me as well. What is a DOM 4 or 5 start on Shandler's scale?

    My biggest knock on Bailey is that Homer's ERA shows how erratic he truly is. You can argue the validity of ERA as an indicator of a pitcher's ability all you want, but a true ace will have a low ERA because he is not allowing baserunners. Homer's ERA doesn't strike me as a true ace material.

    Last year, at low A, Homer's ERA was well over 4.00. At the SAME level, a 19 year old Josh Beckett had an ERA of 2.12 (in the same league Homer pitched in). This year, Homer finally has gotten his ERA down to 3.08 at High-A. Beckett, at High-A (Florida State League - same as Bailey) in 66 innings had an ERA of 1.23. Beckett then went to AA, pitched 74 more innings and posted a 1.82 ERA at AA. When Bailey starts putting up Beckett-like numbers, and can sustain them over the length of an entire season, then I'll get excited. Felix Hernandez- the Seattle phenom - had an ERA of 2.74 in 92 innings at High A (He was 19 years old). Matt Cain of the Giants had a 1.86 ERA in 73 innings at High A (He was 19-20 at the time).

    To compare to current Reds pitchers, Aaron Harang had a 3.32 ERA in 157 innings in High-A. Claussen, over a two season span, pitched 108 innings at High-A and posted a 2.92 ERA. But even Elizardo Ramirez put up a 3.78 ERA in 157 innings in the FSL. Now, to be fair those three were probably 20 or 21 when they pitched at High-A, but Bailey will be turning 20 in just a couple of weeks, and I seriously doubt that on his 20th birthday, he'll suddenly turn in to Cy Young. A true ace at High A ought to have an ERA that hovers right around the 2.25 mark

    Whenever I get too giddy about Homer's performances, I remind myself that even Dave Williams posted a sub-3.00 ERA and K'd 193 in A-ball.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  12. #101
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    MikeS21, I think the thing is that Bailey is not being allowed to pitch completely how he wants to pitch. His game the other day was the first time all season they told him to go out and throw his fast ball first and look what he did. That means all season prior, he had been working with his lesser pitches. Homer is still developing his secondary pitches, and they are coming along well.

  13. #102
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread
    That's a broad generalization, and a shallow one, I suspect. Do you know the names of all of these employees? If you feel that the Reds organization is that mediocre, why do you support the parent team?
    I don't need an answer to these questions, I just think you are unaware of how negative and pessimistic your viewpoint is.
    I'll answer them anyhow. Honestly, my support of the Reds has nothing to do with the quality of the organization. Like many, when I first started paying attention, the BRM was in full bloom. I am a fan for life, regardless of who is in charge, but then that really has nothing to do with nothing, unless one simply chooses their sports teams like stocks.

    Knowing names of certain employees really has no bearing on making a rather simple evaluation of the state of the Reds org., which as I already mentioned, has not had the new regime in place long enough to make too many sweeping changes. There were several moves made after Krivsky was hired, but most of the key employees were retained in some capacity. The coaching staffs were essentially already in place. But you do have me caught in one point--I have not done an organizational chart and an evaluation of each and every employee.

    I only have about five years running of a barren pitching development program to go on and consistently one of the worst major league pitching staffs for a similar amount of time. Pardon me for being unimpressed by one performance from an ever increasingly hyped prospect being developed by an organization still bragging about Tom Browning. I hope as much as anyone that Homer lives up to the expectations. But do I have to make him into something contrary to the evidence thus far to hold out that hope? Or would it be better to say something along the lines of "wow, hopefully this is a sign of dramatic improvement and not just a night where he was on"?
    Can't win with 'em

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  14. #103
    Member CTA513's Avatar
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Homer Bailey stole my lunch box on tuesday.

  15. #104
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Jessica again:





    can you say wallpaper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    there's nothing like bowling a 300 game! 13 now and retired.


    Ricky henderson has a higher OBP than C. patterson and he's retired. C. Trent 6-14-2008

  16. #105
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    Re: Homer Bailey pitching at 10:35 AM this morning

    Bailey Cruises Through Tigers

    People have been wondering when things are going to click for Reds pitching phenom Homer Bailey, and yesterday they did.

    The high Class A Sarasota righthander threw six hitless innings and had nine strikeouts but got a no-decision as Sarasota defeated Lakeland 2-0.

    "One of those days that we all lay in bed and think about where everything clicks," Sarasota pitching coach Ed Hodge said. "If not for the pitch count, who knows what he would have accomplished?"

    After going 8-4, 4.43 with a 125-62 strikeout-walk ratio in 104 innings last season for low Class A Dayton, Bailey has focused on improving his changeup. He has a mid-90s fastball and a 12-to-6 curveball that could be considered a 70 on the 20-to-80 scale. Last night, he had a third weapon in his arsenal.

    "Best changeup I have seen him have yet. When you are going 93-97 in A-ball, you donít need a heck of a lot more to dominate," Hodge said. "He commanded the changeup, and it is something he has worked extremely hard on. He has really bought into and knows it is something he has got to have."

    Bailey was a first-round pick in 2004 out of LaGrange (Texas) High and was Baseball Americaís High School Player of the Year. He has been ranked as the Reds' No. 1 prospect the last two years, and has the stuff to be a front of the rotation in the big leagues.

    "The biggest thing with a guy that throws that hard is to have the change near the plate," Hodge said. "A power pitcher becomes more of a power pitcher when he develops a change."

    --MATT MEYERS

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...ws/261164.html
    I miss Adam Dunn.


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