Overrated: Derek Jeter
Underrated: Michael Young
As voted by 370 MLB players. Thoughts?
Overrated: Derek Jeter
Underrated: Michael Young
As voted by 370 MLB players. Thoughts?
Couldn't agree more on Jeter for what he is paid he is #1.GO CINCY!!!!!
Overrated: Johnny Damon
Underrated: Brian Giles
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
It's hard to know exactly what they mean by that...as a not-really-casual baseball fan, I tend to analyze that right away, and they mean over/underrated by whom? Because in my world, there would be very different answers from the broadcasters/casual fan/die-hard fan. Jeter is a perfect example, in a way. Terribly overrated by broadcasters, terribly underrated by stats geeks. in my opinion.
If we're going strictly by payroll, I'd say one of the closers. BJ Ryan comes to mind.
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.
I don't think Jeter is overrated he's got 4 rings which is more than most of the 370 ballplayers polled. Most guys get to be overrated because they get talked about constantly which for three or four years Jeter was talked alot about. Overpaid yes overrated no.
Overrated Curt Schilling
Underrated Craig Biggio
So he played for some very talented Yankees teams in the late 90s. Why would that mean he couldn't be overrated?Originally Posted by KoryMac5
We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.
If everyone thinks that a player is underrated, can he still be, by definition, underated? I mean, it seams like everyone knows that he's actually much better than people think. Which, then follows, that he's no longer underrated.
Underrated Reds?
Harang, who last year was one of the best 20 starters in the NL, but got bogged down wit hthe rest of the Reds staff because he didn't get very good run support. If Harang pitches as well as he did last year, he'll get 18+ wins if the Reds give him average (for them) run support.
I felt the same way in the preseason when everyone was tabbing the Brewers as the 'dark horse' team. If everyone was doing it, how could they be the team least expected to do anything?
Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13, 15
University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12
Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98
“Everything that happens before Death is what counts.”
― Ray Bradbury, Something Wicked This Way Comes
Big wow, 4 rings. I don't think that makes a player what he is, even though they say "he'll be judged by how many rings he wins." If that was the case then Barry Bonds would have atleast one (or 10). Griffey AND A-Rod on one team in their prime and ZERO WS appearances. Rings don't make a player. I'm not picking on you KoryMac bc all media heads say that too.
Overrated I think Jeter is by far number one. He has terrible range on ground balls (see the Bible or your current BA magazine). And Tony Womack. Someone traded two semi-prospects for him and then when that guy got fired, the new GM had to cut TW bc he wasn't very good, AT ALL.
Underrated - Michael Young and many Rangers' hitters. Jonny Gomes (starting to get respect).
Oh man, I get emotional when defending Jeter so I probably won't shut up here and I'm sorry. The rings are not the greatest example to use as evidence of his talent, but not ignorable when you consider how important a part of most of those teams he was. To the argument that he came along to the right team at the right time -- well, it's cyclical. That team was in great part what it was because of him. Or at least in small part. Yes, he happened to come along in time for a team that won four championships in five years; had he not come along, though, there's a very good chance that it might not have been a team that won four championships in five years.
Again, though, that's not the greatest example of why he's good. See, to call him overrated -- overrated on what? You use his weakness of range as an example, but I rarely hear people refer to Jeter as a great defensive shortstop (except Tim McCarver). In fact the people I know rag on him so badly as a shortstop that I often find myself pointing out that his range to his left is decent and he tracks flyballs like almost nobody else. He's won one (two?) Gold Gloves now, and that's perhaps undeserved. But the first (only?) one was almost ten years into his career, so it's not as if his defense is perpetually overrated. He is a thoughtful hitter who can be patient and also hit for power, he's an extraordinary baserunner, and he's a tough, durable player whose confidence and drive have a lot to do with the quality of that team. That's not overrated to me. Put it this way: even the people I know who loathe Jeter have all admitted to me at some point that they'd want Jeter on their real-life or fantasy teams.
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.
Overrated: Nomar (even without all the injuries)
Underrated: Harang's got to be up there. vatican's man Javier V. gets a few votes. But at the present moment, without a doubt it's got to be Contreras--he may be the best starter in baseball over the last 9 months.
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
I really like the Jeter one, I have a friend and for quite sometime we have been in a never ending debate of Barry Larkin vs. Derek Jeter any takes on that?
I can say this: Barry HoF induction would be an absolute certainty if he had played on the Yankees.
We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.
I took that one up in a thread from last August
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...t=39361&page=2
Someone noted that Jeter has never had to carry a lineup. This was my response:This was an excellent post RB. I was reading through the thread and couldn't believe how many people were quick to write Jeter off as just average. Larkin played for 18 years. In that time, he failed to reach 2,500 hits. Jeter could very well end up with 3,000 hits with a .315 average. I realize that average isn't a very telling stat in the game, but I know this much: a player with 3,000 hits, and a .300 plus average is without a doubt in the conversation as a first ballot HOFer - no matter who he played for.
I think people's perceptions of Jeter aren't biased in two ways. First, he is a Yankee, and Yankees are generally hated (as a Yankees fan I'd know). Second, there seems to be a degree of jealousy towards the attention Jeter has received. In a sense, Larkin should have had the same attention, but never did (as a Reds fan I'd know). In the early part of his career, he was overshadowed by Ozzie Smith. Towards the end of his career, he was overshadowed by guys like Arod, Jeter, and Garciaparra. I would rank Larkin as one of the best shortstops ever. Unfortunately, that perception doesn't resonate outside of Cincinnati as much as it should. I don't think that's Jeter's fault. If you look at this objectively, you'll see two amazing shortstops. At the end of the day, these guys are both players any team would be happy to have for years. Just because you love one doesn't mean you can't respect the other.
Look at the WS team from 1998. Are Bernie Williams and Paul O'Neill HOF players? No one hit above 28 homeruns on that team. The names on that roster aren't exactly giants protecting Jeter. Also, look at his stats from the 2000 WS. His OBP was .480, his SLG was .864. I would call that carrying a lineup. If you need regular season, have a look at '99.
How do we know he's not Mel Torme?
In the winter I did a Barry Larkin vs. every other great shortstop comparison, including Derek Jeter, in an effort to gauge where Larkin ranks among the game's greatest shortstops and how he should/may get treated by the BBWAA writers when his name shows up on Hall ballots.
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42221 (wayyy too long of a post to copy/paste here)
IMO, Larkin is historically one of the most underrated players ever. Interestingly enough, another great shortstop, Arky Vaughan, is also one of the most underrated players ever.
As far as current overrated and underrated ... Brian Giles is way up there, and he's already been mentioned. Bobby Abreu is another guy that's highly underrated. Since Jeter's already been mentioned as an overrated candidate, I'll toss up Darin Erstad. He's had one great season, two decent seasons and six well below average seasons, including each of his last five seasons.
The Lost Decade Average Season: 74-88
2014-22 Average Season: 71-91
Posting Permissions
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
