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Thread: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

  1. #46
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by PTI (pti)
    I don't really want to get into a Derek Jeter-slurping contest on a Reds message board, but this is exactly why Jeter is *underrated* - especially by non-Yankee fans. Not even the best shortstop on his team??? Come on - do you really buy that?? He'll eventually end his career with about a .310 career BA, 3000+ hits, 300 or so home runs, and 300-400 steals. Not to mention 4 WS rings.


    It obviously helps to be in a better lineup, but come on - 3000 hits doesn't just happen by accident. He's a damn good baseball player, and one of the top 3/4 shortstops in the game over the last 10 years.



    Underrated = how about Jason Jennings? If he pitched anywhere else in the NL, he'd likely be a #1 starter. Very good hitter, too - career BA around .250.
    He's talking about his defensive abilities as a shortstop, which are in fact notably below A-Rod's. A-Rod is the best shortstop of his generation and he's also done better at third than Jeter probably could have. I love Derek Jeter with all my soul but even I'm not blind to that.

    Ever since Bernie started to deteriorate, there have been rumors every year about moving Jeter to centerfield, and every year I advocate it. Does this mean I think he's overrated? Not at all. He's more valuable to that team than anyone else, and as far as position players go, probably would be on any team.

    I know that clutch is a foggy area and I hate to make arguments without solid facts to back them up, especially since I know the numbers are there to argue Jeter's shortcomings as a shortstop. But, while I would never argue that he's a great defensive shortstop, I do think looking only at the stats devalues him there. I watched a good 80% of the games he played over about a three-year period, and I think he's better than the numbers indicate. What do I have to back this up? Well, no numbers really, just what my eyes have seen...his range to his left has notably improved since A-Rod came aboard. His hands and his feet sometimes seem to be at odds -- he's got great hands, but he gets tripped up with his feet. But this has gotten better, and if anything I think maybe the Gold Gloves were a nod toward that. He's also a pretty fielder, kind of showy and graceful, which I admit may make him look better than he is. Nevertheless...I guess my point is that people scream that his number make him the worst shortstop in the majors, while a Gold Glove would indicate that he is the best in the AL. The truth is very much in the middle. So, in my mind, rather average defensively, then throw in his hitting ability, his baserunning ability (severely underrated in my opinion -- he's one of the best I've ever seen, quick and very smart), and everything else he brings to the team, and he's right up there again. So, = not overrated.

    Another thing that I think people overlook with Jeter is how many second basemen he's had to deal with over the last 10+ years. He's adjusted at every turn. I'm inclined to think that if he had had more second basemen working with him for more than a couple of season at a time (and sometimes far less), he would have had opportunity to settle in more.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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  3. #47
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Overated
    C Mike Matheney/Brad Ausmus
    1B Sean Casey
    2B Jose Vidro/Mark Grudzielanek/Alfonso Soriano
    3B Adrian Beltre
    SS Jose Reyes
    LF Carl Crawford
    CF Tori Hunter
    RF Jaque Jones/Jose Guillen (at least defensively)
    UTL Shea Hillenbrand
    SP Bartolo Colon
    RP Keith Foulke/Todd Jones

    Underrated
    C Jason LaRue (by Reds fans)
    1B Craig Wilson
    2B Mark Bellhorn
    3B Russell Branyan
    SS Khalil Greene (unrealistic expectations for that ballpark)
    LF Brad Wilkerson
    CF Mike Cameron
    RF Brad Hawpe
    DH Adam Dunn
    SP Chris Young/Byung-Hyun Kim
    RP Adam Wainwright
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  4. #48
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    I can't believe you guys are making me defend Derek Jeter, but the fact that he's not as good a SS or overall ballplayer as Alex Rodriguez is hardly damning evidence of anything. Who is?

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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj
    I can't believe you guys are making me defend Derek Jeter, but the fact that he's not as good a SS or overall ballplayer as Alex Rodriguez is hardly damning evidence of anything. Who is?
    Great point here, there may not be another person on the planet you can put up there with AROD. Before you guys start slamming me with Pujols, i'd agree you can put Pujols right up there *offensively* with AROD, maybe even a shade above him but the overall package of AROD is unreal. I think you could put him anywhere on the infield and he'd be gold glove caliber.

  6. #50
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj
    I can't believe you guys are making me defend Derek Jeter, but the fact that he's not as good a SS or overall ballplayer as Alex Rodriguez is hardly damning evidence of anything. Who is?
    Exactly. He'll probably retire as one of the top 10 players in the history of his position. That's not too shabby.

    It should be noted that not a lot of guys manage to play SS as a regular position past the age of 30. Robin Yount and Ernie Banks had given the position up by Jeter's age. So had Tony Fernandez.
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  7. #51
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    I'm sure I'll get flack for it, but I would put ARod in the underrated category if only because he should be THE star of MLB and we never hear about him -- at least rarely in a good light. He has tons of constituencies who all want a piece of him and all we ever hear are complaints that doesn't live up to it somehow.

    - He's been doing what Pujols does but for 10 years.
    - He's played 2 of the toughest positions VERY well (let me know when Pujols wins a GG at short)
    - He's stolen over 200 bases -- at an 80% clip.
    - He's a year younger than Jeter. He's closer in age to Adam Dunn than Ken Griffey Jr.

    Unfortunately, because he took a ridiculous offer, it's as if nothing he could do is enough. If we're talking about the level of attention/hype people get relative to their skill/performance, I think ARod has be up there. Obviously not THE most underrated, because he does get plenty of attention, but I think we've unfortunately grown accustomed to his greatness -- much like Bonds pre-roids.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #52
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick
    I'm sure I'll get flack for it, but I would put ARod in the underrated category if only because he should be THE star of MLB and we never hear about him -- at least rarely in a good light. He has tons of constituencies who all want a piece of him and all we ever hear are complaints that doesn't live up to it somehow.

    - He's been doing what Pujols does but for 10 years.
    - He's played 2 of the toughest positions VERY well (let me know when Pujols wins a GG at short)
    - He's stolen over 200 bases -- at an 80% clip.
    - He's a year younger than Jeter. He's closer in age to Adam Dunn than Ken Griffey Jr.

    Unfortunately, because he took a ridiculous offer, it's as if nothing he could do is enough. If we're talking about the level of attention/hype people get relative to their skill/performance, I think ARod has be up there. Obviously not THE most underrated, because he does get plenty of attention, but I think we've unfortunately grown accustomed to his greatness -- much like Bonds pre-roids.
    No, I definitely agree with this. In fact there was a thread about it not long ago based on an article about A-Rod in the NYTimes. Somebody (Cyclone?) brought up the point that we will become more famous as he approaches the records, which is probably true.

    As per him taking a "ridiculous" offer, the only person that should have this held against him is Steinbrenner.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  9. #53
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    As per him taking a "ridiculous" offer, the only person that should have this held against him is Steinbrenner.
    Did you mean Hicks, or am I misunderstanding?

  10. #54
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Exactly. He'll probably retire as one of the top 10 players in the history of his position. That's not too shabby.

    It should be noted that not a lot of guys manage to play SS as a regular position past the age of 30. Robin Yount and Ernie Banks had given the position up by Jeter's age. So had Tony Fernandez.
    Barry Larkin didn't.

    just sayin'.

    And IMO that is why Jeter is overrated. Oh, he's a fine hitter, but defensively? He'll never be in Barry's league. Larkin was as smooth as any that ever manned the position, and really ushered in the power hitting SS era.

    So, yeah, I think Jeter is overrated. That doesn't mean he isn't great, just overrated.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  11. #55
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum
    As per him taking a "ridiculous" offer, the only person that should have this held against him is Steinbrenner.
    Why? The Rangers made the offer, and I believe that they're still paying a portion of that money today.

  12. #56
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    I was just simply saying there is a better SS on the Yankees team then Derek Jeter. Now that I think about it, ARod made the list of overrated as well but at a small percent. I am going to go see if I can find the whole article.

  13. #57
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Couldnt find anything. It was done by Sports Illustrated so I am sure it will be in their upcoming issue.

  14. #58
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    I don't think it's fair that Jeter is compared to ARod, but that's how he's portrayed by virtually every media outlet: a true peer of ARod. When, of course, he comes nowhere near ARod's status.

    So the comparison of those two is flawed, but strangely, it's fomented by large numbers of people. Maybe that's why all the overrated votes.

    Nomar and Jeter are in the same class; ARod is in a class by himself.

    Incidentally, it's not possible to overrate the best, ARod.

  15. #59
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj
    Did you mean Hicks, or am I misunderstanding?
    I misunderstood you. I automatically assume that when people are criticizing players for taking a large amount of money, they're criticizing them for taking it directly from the Yankees . And actually, I'd forgotten some of the details of that deal.

    In short, the argument of "he just went where the money way" never holds any water with me as a criticism of a player himself. If a team is dumb enough to overpay a player, it's not his fault if he wants to take it.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    Adam Dunn. For a LIKELY future Hall of Famer (IMO), the media and fans both focus a whole lot on his negatives. In some ways I blame rotisserie baseball. That whole batting average thing deflates his perceived value, while inflating a guy like Teixeira (who I also like, but is certainly no better and is probably worse)
    Probably worse? We have discussed on this board time and time again Adam Dunn and his positives/negatives. The main argument made for Dunn is he gets on base. Ok, that's great. The last two seasons Adam Dunn had 616 total bases. Teixiera had 675. He also won a Gold Glove last year. The only way Dunn is getting one is with a can of spray paint. Your loyalty for Dunn is admirable. But to say that Teixeira is "probably worse" is ludicrous. It's okay to say someone is better than Dunn, it doesn't lessen the fact that he is good at what he does. But if you're going to use stats to defend him, then do your homework when comparing him to someone else.


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