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Thread: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

  1. #106
    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath
    Jeter has won a Gold Glove the last two seasons. I'll bet any shortstop would kill to struggle like that.
    Remember that time Rafael Palmiero won a GG in a year he played something like 19 games at first?

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  3. #107
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath
    Jeter has won a Gold Glove the last two seasons. I'll bet any shortstop would kill to struggle like that.
    Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove once, despite playing only 28 games there, and despite having a scrotum the size of a raspberry.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  4. #108
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    and despite having a scrotum the size of a raspberry.

  5. #109
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove once, despite playing only 28 games there, and despite having a scrotum the size of a raspberry.

    I'd hate to be the guy hired to measure that.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  6. #110
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    I don't want to know how chili knows that :runawaycr
    Go Gators!

  7. #111
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Speaking of "raspberries".

    I bet Barry Bonds has a tough time pleasing his wife after taking all those steroids.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  8. #112
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by PTI (pti)
    Highlifeman =

    * Jeter is a "glorified role player?" Hahahahahaa. Well, he'll probably be the first role player in the 3000-hit club. I hate him too, but not enough to blind me of his talent. Honestly - I don't feel like looking up the stats, but if you can find 4 better shortstops over the last 10 years, *please* let me know.

    * Sheffield (2003) = .330, 39 home runs, 132 rbi, 126 runs, .419 obp (this was with Atlanta - not New York - and he was 3rd in MVP voting on a team with very little firepower)
    Code:
    Shortstops
    
    Player		Timespan		RC (total)	RC (average)	OPS
    Jeter		2000-present		643.4		107.2 		.839
    Tejada		2000-present		636.3		106.05		.843
    Young		2003-present		338.7		112.9		.840
    Rodriguez	2000-2004		573.1		143.28		1.015
    Garciaparra	2000-2004		469.1		117.28		.928
    So, in order of being better than Jeter.... Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Young, Tejada, and that's just from 2000 to the present. Since you said 10 years, I could trot out a fan favorite on this board, Barry Larkin, and I could also mention Cal Ripken, Jr.

    Obviously you didn't read any of my other posts where I explained why I called Jeter a "glorified role player".... I'm not blinded to miss Jeter's talent. He'll be a HOF, but there are better than him, it's that simple.

    So there you have it, there have been at least 4 better shortstops in the last 10 years than Derek Jeter.

    Anything else?

  9. #113
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    Code:
    Shortstops
    
    Player		Timespan		RC (total)	RC (average)	OPS
    Jeter		2000-present		643.4		107.2 		.839
    Tejada		2000-present		636.3		106.05		.843
    Young		2003-present		338.7		112.9		.840
    Rodriguez	2000-2004		573.1		143.28		1.015
    Garciaparra	2000-2004		469.1		117.28		.928
    So, in order of being better than Jeter.... Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Young, Tejada, and that's just from 2000 to the present. Since you said 10 years, I could trot out a fan favorite on this board, Barry Larkin, and I could also mention Cal Ripken, Jr.

    Obviously you didn't read any of my other posts where I explained why I called Jeter a "glorified role player".... I'm not blinded to miss Jeter's talent. He'll be a HOF, but there are better than him, it's that simple.

    So there you have it, there have been at least 4 better shortstops in the last 10 years than Derek Jeter.

    Anything else?
    Sorry, but Derek Jeter is a better baseball player than Michael Young, Nomar, or Miguel Tejada. Being the most stable member of the most famous team in professional sports means something. I know people hate the chemistry word, but what Derek Jeter means to the Yankees isn't gonna be shown in any RC stat.

    That's not even considering the differences in Arlington, Camden, and Fenway compared to Yankee Stadium for RH hitters.
    Last edited by Cedric; 05-06-2006 at 01:40 AM.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  10. #114
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Most Overrated: Carlos Beltran
    Most Underrated: Chris Capuano

    Most Overrated Red: Adam Dunn....you gotta love his .129 batting average with runners in scoring position.
    Most Underrated Red: Rich Aurilia.....he, unlike Dunn, can atleast hit the ball when men are on base.

  11. #115
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle1976
    Most Overrated: Carlos Beltran
    Most Underrated: Chris Capuano

    Most Overrated Red: Adam Dunn....you gotta love his .129 batting average with runners in scoring position.
    Most Underrated Red: Rich Aurilia.....he, unlike Dunn, can atleast hit the ball when men are on base.
    And yet Dunn had more RBI last year and this year. BA with RISP is the suck. Worst. Stat. Ever.

    OPS with RISP is a much better stat to use.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  12. #116
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    Code:
    Shortstops
    
    Player		Timespan		RC (total)	RC (average)	OPS
    Jeter		2000-present		643.4		107.2 		.839
    Tejada		2000-present		636.3		106.05		.843
    Young		2003-present		338.7		112.9		.840
    Rodriguez	2000-2004		573.1		143.28		1.015
    Garciaparra	2000-2004		469.1		117.28		.928
    So, in order of being better than Jeter.... Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Young, Tejada, and that's just from 2000 to the present. Since you said 10 years, I could trot out a fan favorite on this board, Barry Larkin, and I could also mention Cal Ripken, Jr.

    Obviously you didn't read any of my other posts where I explained why I called Jeter a "glorified role player".... I'm not blinded to miss Jeter's talent. He'll be a HOF, but there are better than him, it's that simple.

    So there you have it, there have been at least 4 better shortstops in the last 10 years than Derek Jeter.

    Anything else?
    I'm not sure how you'd conclude Tejada is better than Jeter from that sample. They're in a dead heat according to those numbers. In general, Miggy will hit for better power and Jeter will be on base more often.

    To make it a fair sample, I think you'd need to compare six-year samples of other shortstops if you want to use Jeter's 2000-present numbers. Nomar would fall off the pace if you did that. Young's played exactly one season where he's out-produced Jeter (2005).

    Ripken probably grades out slightly ahead of Jeter for his first 10 seasons, but Ripken's game came apart at the seams at age 31. During the last decade of Ripken's career he was a fairly forgettable ballplayer riding a consecutive games streak. Jeter looks like he's going to be a very good player for the forseeable future and it's likely going to elevate his career numbers well above Ripken's -- maybe not his counting stats, but certainly on the percentages.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  13. #117
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'm not sure how you'd conclude Tejada is better than Jeter from that sample. They're in a dead heat according to those numbers. In general, Miggy will hit for better power and Jeter will be on base more often.

    To make it a fair sample, I think you'd need to compare six-year samples of other shortstops if you want to use Jeter's 2000-present numbers. Nomar would fall off the pace if you did that. Young's played exactly one season where he's out-produced Jeter (2005).

    Ripken probably grades out slightly ahead of Jeter for his first 10 seasons, but Ripken's game came apart at the seams at age 31. During the last decade of Ripken's career he was a fairly forgettable ballplayer riding a consecutive games streak. Jeter looks like he's going to be a very good player for the forseeable future and it's likely going to elevate his career numbers well above Ripken's -- maybe not his counting stats, but certainly on the percentages.

    Miggy's better defensively, so since the offensive numbers are a wash, he gets the overall nod due to the glove.

    I want to repeat, Jeter is a solid HOF SS, but there have been better than him in the past 10 years, and that was the construction of the list.

    Only reason I included some of the earlier years for Jeter and Miggy is b/c they were around. Young's only been around about 3 seasons, and Nomar hasn't played SS since 2004, IIRC. The same was the case for Rodriguez. He hasn't played SS since end of 2003.

    I remember back to some of the ASG circa 1999 to 2003 where Jeter was the 4th best SS on the AL alone!

    Again, Jeter is a HOF, but he's not the best there ever was, and he's not the best there ever will be, he's just overhyped due to that NYC media market.

    I wanted to use winshares for that same time period, but I was unable to easily find them, so I used RC instead, which I thought was on the same path of logic.

  14. #118
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    What's overhyped about Jeter? He not only plays his best at the highest level, he produces at a pretty incredibly steady rate.

    How can you be labeled "solid" and then be a hall of famer?

    Again, Derek Jeter is the face of the most famous franchise in sports. He not only produces on the field, he handles the circus better than any athlete I've ever seen.

    And your stats aren't that lopsided. Put Jeter in Arlington or Fenway and I bet you'd be surprised how close it became. Add in the intangibles of Jeter and to me he's clearly a better baseball player than Tejada, Nomar, or Young ever were or will be.

    I don't care about Giambi not sliding. Watch that play again and tell me how many players would have the mental capacity to pull that off? That's something you can't judge in sports and win shares and RC isn't gonna do it.
    That's the greatest single play I've ever watched in my baseball life.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  15. #119
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle1976
    Most Overrated Red: Adam Dunn....you gotta love his .129 batting average with runners in scoring position.
    Kyle, you're a little more new than I am so I'll give you two pointers since you have committed the two cardinal sins on this board.

    1. You never, ever, ever, mention batting average. It means nothing, its obsolete. A walk is as good as a hit blah blah blah...
    2. You must never ever criticize Saint Adam because he's going to the HOF.
    Ignore everything that to you says otherwise. Forget the strikeouts and forget that he reeks defensively at two positions. Forget that right now he's fourth on his own team in RBI's. Ignore the fact the in the NL this season only two other players with two or more homers have a worse homer/RBI ratio. (Arroyo and Darryl Ward). He is a Hall of Famer. Accept it. Because the Reds board says it is. Don't make them throw their calculators at you.

    When you can do these two things you will reach true enlightenment my son.

    The handofdeath is no more.

  16. #120
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    What's overhyped about Jeter? He not only plays his best at the highest level, he produces at a pretty incredibly steady rate.

    How can you be labeled "solid" and then be a hall of famer?

    Again, Derek Jeter is the face of the most famous franchise in sports. He not only produces on the field, he handles the circus better than any athlete I've ever seen.

    And your stats aren't that lopsided. Put Jeter in Arlington or Fenway and I bet you'd be surprised how close it became. Add in the intangibles of Jeter and to me he's clearly a better baseball player than Tejada, Nomar, or Young ever were or will be.

    I don't care about Giambi not sliding. Watch that play again and tell me how many players would have the mental capacity to pull that off? That's something you can't judge in sports and win shares and RC isn't gonna do it.
    That's the greatest single play I've ever watched in my baseball life.
    You've still yet to concede that Jeter isn't even close to being the best SS on his own team. Alex Rodriguez has almost 1300 games at SS and those stats shadow anything Jeter's ever accomplished, and that includes Arlington and Kingdome numbers.

    You may prefer Jeter, I still prefer Rodriguez, Tejada, a healthy Nomar, Michael Young, Barry Larkin and Cal Ripken, Jr.

    You can't measure intangibles, yet you try to quantify them.

    I've conceded that Jeter is a HOF, and will most likely finish in the top 10 of greatest SS of all time, but he'll never crack the top 5, and that's why he's overhyped and overrated. He's good/great, but not elite. Alex Rodriguez is elite, and as the argument was posed, the discussion was the last 10 years of SS, which Rodriguez definitely qualifies.

    It's Jeter's average to sub par defense that continues to bother me about him, since that's largely the basis for him being overrated. I'm not knocking his stick at all, he's put up solid/respectable numbers, but his defense leaves a lot to be desired.


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