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Thread: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

  1. #1
    GOREDSGO32
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    Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    He's got his ERA back down to around his career numbers .. in the low 4's ... guess sometimes you shouldn't be quick to pull the plug on someone.

    Also of note Hammond is 'down' to 13 ERA ... which is good considering it was 169 .. he has only given up 1 run in his past 4 appearances ... which have been very few, but improved nonetheless.

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    Member harangatang's Avatar
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOREDSGO32
    He's got his ERA back down to around his career numbers .. in the low 4's ... guess sometimes you shouldn't be quick to pull the plug on someone.

    Also of note Hammond is 'down' to 13 ERA ... which is good considering it was 169 .. he has only given up 1 run in his past 4 appearances ... which have been very few, but improved nonetheless.
    You know Rick White this year reminds me of David Weathers last year. Weathers started off horrible and people wanted him cut from the team and then he settled down and ended up becoming the closer after Graves was cut. I don't think White will end up as the closer by any means but I think he'll settle in to a middle relief role in the bullpen.

  4. #3
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    The only thing is, I truly believe that the Reds do not need 12 pitchers on the roster! The think 11 pitchers can handle the workload just fine. (Case in point, Chris Hammond hadn't pitched in 10 days before pitching one inning in mop-up duty in Wednesday night's loss at Colorado. He has pitched only 6 innings all season.) In my opinion, carrying an unnecessary twelfth pitcher limits the flexibility of the bench.
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu
    The only thing is, I truly believe that the Reds do not need 12 pitchers on the roster! The think 11 pitchers can handle the workload just fine. (Case in point, Chris Hammond hadn't pitched in 10 days before pitching one inning in mop-up duty in Wednesday night's loss at Colorado. He has pitched only 6 innings all season.) In my opinion, carrying an unnecessary twelfth pitcher limits the flexibility of the bench.
    Yeah, and it takes the heat off trading the 3rd catcher, If we are going to move one of those guys, I think it will be closer to the deadline, as not a lot of teams seem interested in trading right now. Maybe, just maybe a pitcher will go down when griff comes back.
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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu
    The only thing is, I truly believe that the Reds do not need 12 pitchers on the roster! The think 11 pitchers can handle the workload just fine. (Case in point, Chris Hammond hadn't pitched in 10 days before pitching one inning in mop-up duty in Wednesday night's loss at Colorado. He has pitched only 6 innings all season.) In my opinion, carrying an unnecessary twelfth pitcher limits the flexibility of the bench.
    I couldn't agree more and I've never liked breaking camp with more than 11. If need be bring another guy in later. Actually I think the pitching has been better than they expected and they actually thought they'd need more "mop up" work. As it turns out we've rarely needed long relief and when we have Matt Belisle has filled in nicely. There's another name. How much has he worked in the past ten days? More evidence that they really don't need 12 pitchers.

  7. #6
    GOREDSGO32
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    I don't think they need 12 pitchers OR three catchers. Keep Denoforia and an infielder like Olmedo.

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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOREDSGO32
    I don't think they need 12 pitchers OR three catchers. Keep Denoforia and an infielder like Olmedo.
    Except we don't need a 5th infielder either.
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  9. #8
    GOREDSGO32
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    So everyone should be an outfielder then? Obviously thhe last two players on your roster aren't going to play much, no use arguing the finer points of which position you need 5th string guys at. I say keep the ones that will do the most in pinch hitting or pinch running situations, or if you need a 12th pitcher keep one to use at garbage time in blowouts.

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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu
    The only thing is, I truly believe that the Reds do not need 12 pitchers on the roster! The think 11 pitchers can handle the workload just fine. (Case in point, Chris Hammond hadn't pitched in 10 days before pitching one inning in mop-up duty in Wednesday night's loss at Colorado. He has pitched only 6 innings all season.) In my opinion, carrying an unnecessary twelfth pitcher limits the flexibility of the bench.

    It's truly amazing that our relief pitching hasn't been very active this year. They are averaging 2.5 IP a game this season, and 1.4 IP the last 8 games. I don't think anyone could have predicted the strong performances they have experienced thus far.

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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOREDSGO32
    So everyone should be an outfielder then? Obviously thhe last two players on your roster aren't going to play much, no use arguing the finer points of which position you need 5th string guys at. I say keep the ones that will do the most in pinch hitting or pinch running situations, or if you need a 12th pitcher keep one to use at garbage time in blowouts.
    I'd just rather see Deno than Olmedo, and I don't think the FO wants to let go of Q McC
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    The bullpen looks like it could play in a beer league.
    "I notice that I'm throwing hard when I hear the crowd gasping," - Chapman


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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by NastyBoy
    The bullpen looks like it could play in a beer league.
    Ironic connection there, nasty boy Randy Myers plays in my softball league for the local tavern. He bats cleanup, and usually plays shortstop as a lefty.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  14. #13
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunner44
    Except we don't need a 5th infielder either.
    Except it doesn't really come down to carrying an extra infielder for its own sake. It boils down to having an extra position player available, which means that the club can opt to platoon at a certain position or positions in order to match up better against opposing pitchers, or that an extra bat is available for pinch-hitting duty, or a player is available to pinch-run for a slower player (like our catchers), or someone can go into the game as a defensive replacement or as part or a double-switch without significantly weakening the depth on the bench or having to worry about running out of players. A five-man bench limits the number of moves a manager can make.


    Remember, Lou Piniella had six, and sometimes seven players on his bench in 1990:
    C Jeff Reed
    1B Todd Benzinger (platooned with Hal Morris)
    2B Ron Oester
    3B/2B Luis Quiñones
    OF Glenn Braggs (often platooned with Paul O'Neill in RF)
    OF Herm Winningham

    At times during the season, OF/1B Ken Griffey Sr. and later 2B Bill Doran was the seventh position player on the bench.


    In my opinion, a sixth position player on the bench, strategically used, will win more games for a club than a seventh relief pitcher.
    Last edited by Big Klu; 05-05-2006 at 01:28 AM.
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  15. #14
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu
    Except it doesn't really come down to carrying an extra infielder for its own sake. It boils down to having an extra position player available, which means that the club can opt to platoon at a certain position or positions in order to match up better against opposing pitchers, or that an extra bat is available for pinch-hitting duty, or a player is available to pinch-run for a slower player (like our catchers), or someone can go into the game as a defensive replacement or as part or a double-switch without significantly weakening the depth on the bench or having to worry about running out of players. A five-man bench limits the number of moves a manager can make.


    Remember, Lou Piniella had six, and sometimes seven players on his bench in 1990:
    C Jeff Reed
    1B Todd Benzinger (platooned with Hal Morris)
    2B Ron Oester
    3B/2B Luis Quiñones
    OF Glenn Braggs (often platooned with Paul O'Neill in RF)
    OF Herm Winningham

    At times during the season, OF/1B Ken Griffey Sr. and later 2B Bill Doran was the seventh position player on the bench.


    In my opinion, a sixth position player on the bench, strategically used, will win more games for a club than a seventh relief pitcher.
    Sorry Klu, the comment wasn't directed towards having a short bench, just my personal opinion that I'd rather have Deno than Olmedo.... scroll down a bit, and you'll see it. But whatever...
    Tom Shearn... who knew?

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  16. #15
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Guess too quick to give White the axe huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyReds2003
    It's truly amazing that our relief pitching hasn't been very active this year. They are averaging 2.5 IP a game this season, and 1.4 IP the last 8 games. I don't think anyone could have predicted the strong performances they have experienced thus far.
    No, I didn't anticipate the overall pitching to be this good so far, but I have never advocated carrying 12 pitchers. It is my opinion that the twelfth pitcher (that is, the seventh reliever) is universally a bad pitcher, no matter what staff he pitches for. Nobody has a good seventh reliever. Furthermore, I think a club does itself a disservice by pitching a seventh reliever (who is, by all accounts, a bad pitcher) because he is rarely effective, and he takes innings away from better pitchers. I firmly believe that a club should give its best pitchers as many innings as they can effectively handle.

    Pitch your best pitchers the most! (Without going all Dusty Baker on them, of course! )
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