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Thread: John Sickels' Prospect Retro for Harang

  1. #16
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Joe Sheehan's reaction to the trade

    Sheehan thought the exact same way I did about the trade. As was my recollection, It wasn't just me who thought Valentine was the key to the deal.

    http://baseballprospectus.com/articl...articleid=2163

    It was business as usual in the AL West, where the A's got some help and the Mariners didn't. Jose Guillen is a stone fluke who could return to earth at any moment, but the price was right: three arms, just one--Joe Valentine--with any chance to burn the A's. Guillen doesn't have to keep hitting .337/.385/.629 to improve the A's; a more modest .280/.330/.500 would be a huge upgrade on their current corner outfielders while fixing a slugging hole in the middle of the lineup. Billy Beane might want to cover his eyes, though: Guillen has 16 unintentional walks in 349 plate apperances. This trade doesn't resemble the Jermaine Dye acquisition in 2001; it is the Jermaine Dye acquisition in 2001.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

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  3. #17
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: John Sickels' Prospect Retro for Harang


    Pay attention to the open sky

  4. #18
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    Re: John Sickels' Prospect Retro for Harang

    is now a pretty solid major league starting pitcher
    Harang is decidedly better than "pretty solid." Understandable that he never got overly excited about Harang as a prospect, but no excuse for mis-evaluating him now.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  5. #19
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    Re: John Sickels' Prospect Retro for Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker
    The Cincinnati press wrote it up as Guillen for Harang and change.


    And the RZ view circa 2003...

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31420
    The Cincinnati press is not reliable to evaluate prospects they've never heard of. Harang had pitched in the big leagues, so the Cincy writers had heard of him.

    But I see your point.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  6. #20
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: John Sickels' Prospect Retro for Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by REDSEER
    That's pretty cool......I may be young, but who are all of those pitchers that he is compared to??? I've heard of Lieber, but none of the others....
    Danny Cox pitched for the Cards in the 80's, I think. IIRC, he had a nice 4-6 year run where he was above average, and a long career.

    Of course, someone with a little more energy will look up the stats, but that's a pretty impressive comparision, IMO.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #21
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: John Sickels' Prospect Retro for Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis
    Valentine was supposed to be the "main principle" in that deal to. Harang was the throw in.
    I don't think so. Just look at the playing time they both got shortly after they arrived.

    Valentine was the throw-in. He was another Marc Kroon type prospect. "If he ever throws strikes consistently, he'll be good".

    Harang just happened to exceed expectations. Most people (including the experts) at the time figured that Harang was a #4/#5 starter to eat innings until something better came along. Give credit to Harang for working so hard. I recall an article where he really busted his butt in the offseason before 2005, and it really paid off.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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