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Thread: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

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  1. #1
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey
    Cincinnati doesn't need oft-injured outfielder — it needs pitching help
    Al Behrman / AP

    Ken Griffey Jr. came back in style Thursday night with a game-winning, three-run homer against the Nationals. But that just makes him more enticing for other teams, NBCSports.com contributor Mike Celizic writes.

    What’s better for the Cincinnati Reds, keeping Ken Griffey Jr. and hoping he stays healthy enough to kick the team’s league-leading offense up yet another notch, or trading him for the pitching help the team will need if it wants to climb back into the playoffs?

    I don’t know if Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky is thinking along those lines just yet, but he should be. And he should be leaning toward option B, the one in which he sees just what kind of pitching he can pry loose from which reckless GM in return for one of the greatest talents in the game.

    Heck, what about the Yankees? They're in dire need of outfielders after Hideki Matsui suffered a broken wrist Thursday night.

    A month ago, Griffey strained a tendon in his knee while running the bases. It wasn’t thought to be much, but, given his history of leg injuries, the team has been as cautious as a mouse in a snake farm in bringing him back.

    Griffey finally returned Thursday to a lineup that is pumping out nearly 5 1/2 runs a game, the best in the National League, and to a first-place team that remains perhaps the most pleasant surprise in baseball. He fit in right away, belting a 3-run, game-winning homer in the 11th.

    Cincinnati is Griffey’s home town, and he signed with the Reds at a considerable discount six years ago. At 36, he’s a certified first-ballot hall-of-famer, a slugger who will finish his career with 600-plus home runs, and, when he’s healthy, still one of the most feared hitters in the game.

    And yet, Krivsky has to think about trading him.

    The reason is straightforward enough. Although just 5-5 in their past 10, the Reds have gone 16-8 in Griffey’s absence and continue to occupy the top slot in the NL Central standings. They’ve won because they have one superior starting pitcher, a recycled closer who gets the job done and an embarrassment of offense, even with light-hitting second-baseman Ryan Freel taking Griffey’s place in center field. Freel’s replacement, Brandon Phillips, has good power and production, and the other two outfielders, Austin Kearns and Adam Dunn, are big-time power hitters.

    With Griffey back in the lineup, the Reds will score even more. But, as the Yankees have shown repeatedly over the past five seasons, having the best offense in the game doesn’t translate into World Series wins. To win championships, you have to have pitching. That’s been the rule from the beginning of time.

    The Reds are in first place thanks to the off-season acquisition of starter Bronson Arroyo, who went from mediocre in Boston to lights-out with the Reds, compiling an early-season 5-1 record with an ERA of 2.36, more than two runs lower than last year’s number in Boston.

    If they want to stay there, they need another arm similar to Arroyo’s, not more offense. After Arroyo, the Reds pitching is mediocre at best; the team ERA was hovering around 4.50, which puts it solidly in the middle of National League staffs. Most important, the guys chasing the Reds, the Cardinals, have a team ERA nearly a full run lower.

    Since the Cards have some significant offense of their own, it’s only a matter of time before the difference in pitching has its inevitable way with the standings and hoists St. Louis to the top of the NL Central.

    The Reds are expecting to get starter Eric Milton back after having a knee scoped, but Milton never has been good enough to hold down anything but a spot in the back of the rotation, and there’s no reason to expect him to be a difference maker.

    The Reds are fortunate that there’s still time before the trade frenzy begins in earnest. That time can be used to establish — and hope — that Griffey is reasonably healthy, which is to say as healthy as he was last season, and can provide some serious pennant insurance to a contender.

    His contract, at $12.5 million a year and heavily back-loaded, has three more years on it. He’s also a five-and-ten player, so his approval will be needed before a trade can be made.

    The catch is that no bottom-feeder will want to take on a contract that expensive, and contenders guard their front-line pitching like Dobermans protect junk yards. The Reds can get top prospects, but finding immediate help could be difficult.

    The alternative is to keep Griffey, hope he prospers, then trade him in the off-season for that pitching help. In the American League, his health could benefit from DH’ing. In the National, there’s always someone willing to take a chance to get a bat like his.

    Either way, the Reds should get something for a player who’s had one healthy season out of five and may not have another. They have a team that’s a contender, needing only better pitching to get back to the top.

    Griffey could be the ticket to that pitching. It’s why Krivsky has to think about trading his most famous player, and trade him while other teams still think he has value.

    Mike Celizic writes regularly for NBCSports.com and is a freelance writer based in New York.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12745975/
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  2. #2
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Guys an idiot cause Jr has little if any trade value. dealing him would simply be a salary dump if they could even find a partial taker.

    The trading chips the Reds have are a catcher(likely Larue) and Freel.
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Guys an idiot cause Jr has little if any trade value. dealing him would simply be a salary dump if they could even find a partial taker.

    The trading chips the Reds have are a catcher(likely Larue) and Freel.
    How you can't include Kearns in that list I have no idea. He's first and foremost on my trade list. The guy is gifting the Reds by not spitting the bit right out of the gate this season. Now it's time to show our appreciation for all the guy's hard work.

    Oh, and the Reds have no business thinking about "staying in any hunts" this season. Time to solidify around Enc., Dunn, Harang, and Arroyo; everything else is up for sale.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    How you can't include Kearns in that list I have no idea.
    because at the age of 25 it is entirely possible that it could be a new level of performance. We won't know but I really don't see a good trading partner for Kearns at the moment. In addition, if Jr goes down again you have a team woefully short of OFs.

    BTW, the starters of the Phillies can nothing but sliders and curves of Phillips and obviously the scouting report out on Phillips is to feed him offspeed stuff.
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Didn't Chicago offer Chris Young and Casey Regowski last year for Griffey or was that just a rumor? That would be enough value to make me deal Jr.

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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude
    Didn't Chicago offer Chris Young and Casey Regowski last year for Griffey or was that just a rumor? That would be enough value to make me deal Jr.
    That was a bad deal. We're talking DanO bad. The Reds would have had to pay a huge chunk of Griffey's salary and wouldn't have acquired any pitching.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    GO XAVIER! toledodan's Avatar
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude
    Didn't Chicago offer Chris Young and Casey Regowski last year for Griffey or was that just a rumor? That would be enough value to make me deal Jr.

    i work with a familly member of regowski(couisin or uncle) and yes that was thrown up last season. even if we dont trade griffey i would love for the reds to get him. he wants out of the chicago org. because he's blocked from going to the majors with thome and konerko blocking first. he has BIG TIME POWER and is a good first baseman. i'm not down on votto but a kid like this would be a good fit if we don't move dunn to first or won't wait on votto.
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    because at the age of 25 it is entirely possible that it could be a new level of performance. We won't know but I really don't see a good trading partner for Kearns at the moment. In addition, if Jr goes down again you have a team woefully short of OFs.

    BTW, the starters of the Phillies can nothing but sliders and curves of Phillips and obviously the scouting report out on Phillips is to feed him offspeed stuff.
    But we've had years to look at the stuff Kearns is made of, and it ain't much. If any other adversity presents itself to him, who knows how he'll handle it. Furthermore, the guy is going to be very expensive very soon. I don't even want to think about giving this guy an extension. So, he's got to go next season regardless. I'd prefer to strike now and get something of worth in return. I don't think a player has had a bigger "sell" sign over his head than Austin Kearns.

    No sense in overpaying the guy for past production and future trips to the DL.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    No sense in overpaying the guy for past production and future trips to the DL.
    He certainly is no differnt than Lopez or Phillips. Young guys coming in to their own in their mid 20's. I guess the Reds should sell on those two as well because they all have struggled mightily and looked to be turning around as they reach age 25. So if Kearns is on the block by that logic then the others should be as well.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    How you can't include Kearns in that list I have no idea. He's first and foremost on my trade list. The guy is gifting the Reds by not spitting the bit right out of the gate this season. Now it's time to show our appreciation for all the guy's hard work.

    Oh, and the Reds have no business thinking about "staying in any hunts" this season. Time to solidify around Enc., Dunn, Harang, and Arroyo; everything else is up for sale.

    You must have been late getting to this post, FCB. 2nd reply, and you already threw Kearns under the bus. Time to show our appreciation for the guy's hard work by trading him? Usually a more LOYAL reward would be a LTC. You live in Philly, you must have Kearns confused with Abreu. Let's railroad one of our best players out of town... I have my shrine of hating Felipe Lopez, and you have your shrine to all things Austin Kearns.

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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    I'm not sure why you dislike Lopez--he's either produced or tried to produce since he's been with the Reds. I'm not opposed to trading him, but I'd much prefer to have Lopez in my platoon than Kearns, all things being equal.

  12. #12
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    I'm not sure why you dislike Lopez--he's either produced or tried to produce since he's been with the Reds. I'm not opposed to trading him, but I'd much prefer to have Lopez in my platoon than Kearns, all things being equal.

    And that's fine that you wanna ship Kearns. I wanna ship Lopez b/c of his D or remind Brandon Phillips he came up in he Expos and Indians organizations as a SS, until Cleveland decided he was a 2B. I think Lopez's best position with the Reds is 2B. I also think Dunn's best positions with the Reds is 1B. While we're at it, I think Griffey's best position with the Reds is three fold: LF, DL, Traded.

    Like I said, my dislike for Lopez is his lack of defensive ability, which is conversely why I have a small case of manlove for AK: defense.

    I also think that teams would overvalue Lopez b/c of his production as a SS while not really paying attention that he has limited range. Kearns is an OF, and unfortunately, they are dime a dozen. Thankfully he produces for us, so get him hooked up to a loyal, local LTC and make him part of the future.

  13. #13
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Trade him for what? nothing that would help much, unless the Reds pay about 90% of the contract, so no salary relief.
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    Keep Griffey and let him hit the crap out of the ball, we couldn't trade him unless he wanted it anyway.
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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey

    I could definitely handle getting rid of Griffey, if it was possible, if he accepted and if we got solid value for it. 3 big IFs. Seeing him go down time and time again just kills me.


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