Maybe Mays is taking the Lizard's place in the rotation at Lousville? Either way, grumble, grumble!
Maybe Mays is taking the Lizard's place in the rotation at Lousville? Either way, grumble, grumble!
Let's add "to a minor league contract" to the title, shall we?
Originally Posted by Raisor
Much ado about nothing, folks. It is only a minor league contract.
The problem with having a Joe Mays in the system is that, at some point, there's going to be the urge to use him.
Krivsky must have seen something. Maybe he thinks the Reds can fix what ever it is he's doing wrong.
"Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn
If that's the case, they would have fixed it back in Minny.
Doesn't Lohse make a couple mil a year?
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...9/c1461625.jsp
Notes: Reds sign veteran Mays
05/19/2006 7:30 PM ET
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com
DETROIT -- The Reds' latest transaction certainly fell under the oft-used baseball mantra that you can never have enough pitching.
But how much pitching former All-Star Joe Mays can still provide a big-league team remains a mystery. Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky was willing to find out and signed Mays to a Minor League contract on Friday.
The 30-year-old Mays, who will report to Triple-A Louisville, had disastrous results this season for the Royals. He was 0-4 with a 10.27 ERA in six starts before being designated for assignment on May 8 and released on Tuesday.
Krivsky and Mays have a history together from their years with the Twins, with whom the sinkerball thrower pitched from 1999-2005. The attempted reclamation project offers the right-hander no assurance that he'll pitch in the Majors for Cincinnati. But it could benefit Louisville, which has several struggling pitchers.
"I felt like it was worth a shot," Krivsky said from Chattanooga, where he was watching the organization's Double-A affiliate. "We'll take him to Louisville and see if he can get going in a positive way. Hopefully, he can help us."
An owner of a 48-69 record and 4.98 ERA lifetime, Mays' only winning season was 2001 when he was 17-13 with a 3.16 ERA. It earned him an American League All-Star invite and a four-year, $20 million contract the following winter.
The signing ultimately backfired on the Twins. Mays went 18-26 with a 5.81 ERA during his final four years in Minnesota, which included numerous elbow problems and his missing the entire 2004 season after having Tommy John surgery.
Signed to a one-year, $1 million deal this winter by Kansas City, Mays allowed seven homers and lasted five innings just once in his six starts.
"He seems to think it's a matter of command," Krivsky said of Mays' issues this year. "Maybe he's been in the AL Central too long. Maybe it's time for a change."
Start him up: In an expected move, Rich Aurilia was activated from the 15-day disabled list on Friday. Aurilia started Friday's game at third base, which gave regular Edwin Encarnacion a rest.
The DH: If Reds manager Jerry Narron hadn't started Aurilia at third base, he would have used him as his designated hitter. The DH rule is in effect this weekend because the series is being played at an American League ballpark.
Switch-hitting backup catcher Javier Valentin was tabbed as Cincinnati's DH against Detroit right-hander Jeremy Bonderman. Valentin is better hitting left-handed.
"I'm just trying to make sure he gets some at-bats," Narron said. "The way it is here with two left-handers starting [on Saturday and Sunday], if he didn't catch tonight, he wouldn't get a start."
Complete coverage >Valentin had caught Elizardo Ramirez regularly, but his playing time is likely to diminish in the Reds' three-catcher rotation. Ramirez is coming out of the rotation to make way for Eric Milton's return from the DL.
"I don't get mad because I don't play," Valentin said. "Everybody wants to play. It's not an easy situation. It's hard. I'm going to be ready."
Valentin has six career games as a DH with Minnesota and Tampa Bay. He knew he'd be sitting a lot between at-bats, but he planned to try to stay as loose as possible.
"It's not easy, but I think I can do it," Valentin said.
Narron planned to use Adam Dunn as the DH on Saturday and Ken Griffey Jr. there on Sunday.
AL vs. NL: Friday's series opener at Detroit marked the first of 15 Interleague games for the Reds this summer. It's the 10th year for Interleague Play, and Narron has voiced a suggestion that several around the game have had for years.
"The one thing I always thought was [that] when you play Interleague in an American League park, you should play by National League rules and let the fans see that, and vice versa," Narron said.
Which league's rules did Narron prefer? The answer might be surprising.
"National League," he said. "That's after having spent 20 years in the American League, [playing, coaching and managing]. I just think it's a better overall game with the pitcher hitting. It has everybody involved."
Farm report: To make room for infielder Ray Olmedo, who was optioned to Louisville on Thursday to make room for Aurilia, outfielder Brian Buchanan was released. Buchanan impressed many with a strong Spring Training despite his not being an invite to big-league camp, but he batted .179 with three homers in 24 games for the Bats.
Johnny Cueto allowed one hit in a seven-inning shutout for Class A Dayton in a 5-0 win over Fort Wayne on Thursday. Cueto worked a five-inning no-hitter in his previous start.
Coming up: In his first start since April 18, Milton (2-1, 6.50 ERA) will return from left knee surgery when the Reds meet the Tigers on Saturday at 7:05 p.m. ET. Mike Maroth (5-2, 2.18 ERA) is slated to start for Detroit.
This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
Bingo! Yahtzee! Goooooooooooooooooooal!
"I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
Here's what I don't get. You see GM's pick up crappy guys like Joe Mays because its someone they are familiar with. It would seem after watching Joe Mays pitch, for all but one year, you would stay far, far away from the dude because of that familiarity. I mean, he had just over 50 K's in over 150 IP last year.
What would make Krivsky think that he would want him to be around to even be a possible option to pitch even one inning for the Reds at some point in the season? If they have injuries, how many May, Mays, Michalak, Germano's does a team need? It gets almost as bad as recycling managers with these Eveready Bunny scrubs that just keep going and going and going...
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
Phil, you have done smoked yourself retarded.....
Ok, now back to your regular "scrappy" thread....
Yeah, I'm sure the Red Sox fans would love to see Ortiz sit when NL clubs come to down. Likewise, the White Sox fans would like to see the pitcher hit instead of Thome.
That's just a dumb idea.
Other than the DH, there's no difference between the "rules". Why would AL fans want to watch their DH sit while their inexperienced pitchers attempt to hit?
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
This is a move to bolster the crappy Bats pitching staff ... I can't blame them. It's not like this guy is getting called up anytime soon, the Bats need some serious help down here though.
tr, it's a Minnesota Twins M.O. That team has seen little in the way of real high value starting pitching trot through that organization for the past few years. Santana? Yes. But guys like Mays, Silva, Lohse, and even Brad Radke look like really good pitchers to them because they built the team defense-first. Take a gander at the following:
Strikeouts per 9 Innings Pitched 2001-2005:
Joe Mays:
2001- 4.74
2002- 3.59
2003- 3.46
2004- Injured
2005- 3.40
Brad Radke:
2001- 5.46
2002- 4.72
2003- 5.09
2004- 5.86
2005- 5.25
Kyle Lohse:
2001- 6.38
2002- 6.18
2003- 5.82
2004- 5.15
2005- 4.33
Carlos Silva:
2002- 4.39 (Pitt)
2003- 4.95 (Pitt)
2004- 3.37
2005- 3.39
Mays poor contract mercifully came to an end after last season. But the Twins should have been trying desperately to deal the rest of those guys during the offseason (particularly with Baker and Liriano on the horizon). Instead, they're getting paid a combined 16.15 Million bucks this season; equalling 25% of the team's payroll.
Furthermore, that team's inability to stop trying to make mediocre-to-bad pitchers better causes them to overspend on what they consider to be "defense-first" guys who template as offensive powder puffs. Torii Hunter is making 10M bucks this season. Tony Batista (.299 OBP/.401 SLG) is gobbling up starter-level PA when the Twins should be able to plop Michael Cuddyer (.396 OBP/.573 SLG) down at third and live with a defensive downgrade (it would actually be an upgrade, but the Twins don't think so). They're paying Juan Castro and his .514 OPS a million bucks to start a majority of games at Shortstop and they decided to roll a 2.5 million dollar die to see if Rondell White's 2005 800+ OPS was a mirage. And don't get me started on Shannon Stewart. At least they dumped Guzman after 2004, but they kept trying to give playing time to Luis Rivas (thankfully, he wouldn't let them).
To the Twins credit, Morneau should be hitting at this point, but isn't. Joe Mauer is hitting but not with power. And Luis Castillo is doing really well. But then, the Twins did include Travis Bowyer (a tremendous prospect if healthy) to the Fish in the Castillo deal when they should have been looking to grab young pitching and real offense while handing 2B to Luis Rodriguez instead. Hmn...
So what's the end result of all this defense-first maneuvering engineered to make mediocre-to-bad pitchers look better? Let's take a look:
Defensive Efficiency 2001-2006: Minnesota Twins
2001- .705 (MLB Rank- 10th)
2002- .709 (MLB Rank- 12th)
2003- .703 (MLB Rank- 15th)
2004- .693 (MLB Rank- 25th)
2005- .711 (MLB Rank- 6th)
2006- .650 (MLB Rank- 30th)
Well, that's interesting, isn't it? The Twins- a reported "defense and pitching" organization haven't really been all that good defensively excepting a hiccup in 2005. Couple that with BABIP luck and those Defensive Efficiency numbers were, for the most part, high enough to protect a guy or two from looking like crud every season. So the Twins get fooled into paying pitchers rather than trading them for guys who actually could produce consistently.
So what happened between last year and this one?
Right now Luis Castillo's Zone Rating is in the tank (.741) as is Juan Castro's (.811). Tony Batista was reportedly supposed to be able to field (reports often lie), but can't (.674 ZR). Stewart can still cover some ground, but his bat has slowed down a bunch. Hunter is what he is- which is good for a CF- but not 10 million bucks good.
Hmn...so you've got 3/4 of an Infield that's supposed to be able to field to support a 60% of a rotation that can't really strike anyone out. That's bad. Very bad. But it's the status quo for the Twinkies and their recent "plan" (mediocre fielding, mediocre pitching, bad offense) is one of the reasons I soured on Krivsky since his name first appeared as a candidate before the O'Brien hiring.
We've all had discussions as to wanting whatever plan to succeed- be it the Oakland, Atlanta, or Minnesota plan. Problem is that the first two teams on that list have consistently shown they're capable to rid themselves of a player for real value. The latter team has shown they can do so once (Pierzynski) while they continue to cling to players- both position players and pitchers- who should have been moved many moons ago to perpetuate a winning cycle.
Yes, that's a very long explanation, but it appears the reason Krivsky took a shot on Mays is that his familiarity caused him to think that Mays was a once good pitcher so maybe he could be good again. But he really wasn't and he won't be again. Krivsky should know this, but doesn't appear to. Doesn't matter to me that he signed Mays to a minor league deal. What does matter to me is that the Twins have long been slow to identify and react to mediocrity. To his credit, Krivsky reacted quickly to Tony Womack and that's good. I also have little doubt that the Mays acquisition was a reaction to Dave Williams stinker of a season thusfar.
But what I'm really waiting to see is how Krivsky reacts to players he's actually tied to. That'll give me a good indication as to whether Krivsky's smarter than the Minnesota plan of "suck badly, draft well, get old, think mediocre is good".
Last edited by SteelSD; 05-20-2006 at 01:29 PM.
"The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer
"The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
--Ted Williams
Good points on the team defense, Steel.
Selfishly, I don't like this. My hacking mass pitching staff consists of Joe Mays and Kris Benson.
Stick to your guns.
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