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Thread: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

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    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...605200333/1071

    BY JOHN ERARDI | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

    Long before Tom Seaver was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown in 1992, he was thinking how cool it was going to be up on the dais with Pete Rose, his teammate on the 1977 Reds.

    "My last year (in baseball) was 1986, and Pete's last year was 1986, so that meant we were going to be going in together," Seaver said Friday. "Of course that thought crossed my mind. It would have been impossible for it to have not crossed my mind."

    That thought no longer crossed Seaver's mind when Rose was banished from baseball in 1989 for his involvement in gambling.

    Seventeen years later, Rose remains on the outside looking in when it comes to baseball and the Hall of Fame. Seaver, meanwhile, still has the highest percentage of votes (98.84 percent) in the 70-year history of the Hall of Fame.

    "The only reason that nobody before received a bigger percentage of votes is only because there were some older writers who weren't going to vote for anybody on the first ballot, no matter who the player was," Seaver said. "I mean, Joe DiMaggio didn't make it on the first ballot. How much more do you need to know?"

    Seaver's comments came on a day-long series of brief interviews to promote MasterCard's "Pay Pass," which allows "contact-less" payment.

    Seaver agrees with the experts that Rose might have been the first unanimous electee in Hall history had he not gotten into trouble.

    "It's difficult to imagine what might have been (had Rose not been banished)," Seaver said. "I'm like everybody else. I wish it (Rose's betting on baseball) had never happened."

    Seaver was arguably the best pitcher in baseball when he was traded by the Mets to the Reds.

    "That was a tremendous group (of starting eight) players that I joined in 1977," Seaver recalled. "What nobody realized at the time is that it was a team in transition."

    Despite the fact that Seaver was 14-3 with the Reds in 1977 (he was acquired June 15 and three days later pitched a three-hit shutout in Montreal), the team - which was coming off consecutive world championships in 1975 and '76 - finished 10 games behind the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    Seaver said he had great chemistry with catcher Johnny Bench.

    "I remember one time he came out to the mound when I was getting hit early - single, double, single ... and all he said was, 'Are you even trying?' and then just turned around and walked away. I went out behind the mound with my back to home plate and just busted out laughing. John knew that all I needed to do was exhale. We won the game 4-2 and I got the win."

    In only five seasons with the Reds, Seaver was 75-46 (.620 winning percentage, seventh-best in club history), was an All-Star in 1978 and 1981 and, on June 16, 1978 at Riverfront Stadium, pitched his only major-league no-hitter.

    "I'll never forget - even though it was 25 years ago - that we had the best record in baseball (66-42, .611, in the strike-shortened season) in 1981, but they (Major League Baseball) aced us out of the playoffs by splitting the season into two halves," Seaver said. "They wanted the big-market teams to make it to the World Series (which is what happened, as the Dodgers beat the Yankees, 4 games to 2) and the hell with the 1981 Cincinnati Reds.

    "Do I still sound upset?" asked Seaver, laughing.

    Seaver, 61, who has his first batch of grapes from Napa Valley, Calif., "in the oak" that will be sold as wine next year, will be inducted into the Reds Hall of Fame this summer, with Tom Browning and Lee May. They were voted in by fans last year.

    "It's an honor," Seaver said.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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  3. #2
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    I still pinch myself remembering that Tom Terrific pitched for the Reds and pitched for them in his prime. He should have won the Cy Young award the year he came here - he was 21-6 with a 2.58 ERA and 196 K's (compared to Steve Carlton's 23-10 2.64 ERA 198 K's).

    Seaver actually finished tied for 3rd in the Cy Young voting, I think they should have done drug testing of the writers that year. Take a look at this info from that year:

    Code:
    Rk Name             Team Place Points Points Share|  W-L   IP  ERA   WHIP  SO 
    
     1 Steve Carlton     PHI   17    104    120  0.87 | 23-10 283  2.64  1.12 198   
      2 Tommy John        LAD    3     54    120  0.45 | 20-7  220  2.78  1.25 123   
      3 Rick Reuschel     CHC    1     18    120  0.15 | 20-10 252  2.79  1.22 166 
      3 Tom Seaver        TOT    2     18    120  0.15 |+21-6  261  2.58  1.01 196
    I always felt Seaver should have also won in 1981 as a Red when he finished behind Fernando Valenzuela in the strike shortened 1981 season, although looking at their records, it's not as clear to me, particularly comparing K's (which isn't, of course, the whole story):

    Code:
    Rk Name             Team Place Points Points Share|  W-L   IP  ERA   WHIP  SO SV
    +--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+-----+------+---+-----+-----+---+--+
      1 Fernando Valenzue LAD    8     70    120  0.58 | 13-7  192  2.48  1.05 180   
      2 Tom Seaver        CIN    8     67    120  0.56 | 14-2  166  2.54  1.12  87

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Thanks for posting the article, Sava. If only Bowie Kuhn had not nullified the trade for Vide Blue, a Reds tandem of Seaver & Blue might have been able to have brought the 1978 NL West to the Reds.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    I always wonder what would have happened if we hadnt traded Perez!!! i think with the addition of Seaver we would have won the division and who knows went on to win a 3rd World Series!!

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445
    I always wonder what would have happened if we hadnt traded Perez!!! i think with the addition of Seaver we would have won the division and who knows went on to win a 3rd World Series!!
    The Reds pitching in 77 and 78 was the achilles heel, much more than the loss of Perez, whose numbers were replaced, but not his presence in the clubhouse. But if the BRM was so full of cagey vets with their eye on the prize, you'd think losing one guy would not have hurt so much, wouldn't you?

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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    Thanks for posting the article, Sava. If only Bowie Kuhn had not nullified the trade for Vide Blue, a Reds tandem of Seaver & Blue might have been able to have brought the 1978 NL West to the Reds.
    Howsam would not have pursued Seaver is my guess, the Seaver vs Young fiasco fed that trade as did the Reds poor start, if Blue was with the Reds and a good start had occured I doubt Howsam would have pulled the trigger on a Seaver trade.

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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Perez was a huge clutch hitter. thats why he had so many 90 RBI seasons... hence Driesen was nothing like that.. just Dick Wagners fav player!

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445
    Perez was a huge clutch hitter. thats why he had so many 90 RBI seasons... hence Driesen was nothing like that.. just Dick Wagners fav player!
    Howsam traded Perez not Wagner, as I said the offense was not the problem and those RBI's didn't help the Reds pitching one bit, especially since Foster more than replaced Perez's production.

  10. #9
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Please tell me Tom Seaver is not 61 years old.

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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    WOY....the Reds pursued Blue after they traded for Seaver in the middle of 1977.

    Since they did not go after any FA those first 2 years of it's existence...they decided to trade for a pitcher. Heck they had already traded Fryman for Bonham, which i thought was pretty good. Then they had the trade done in early 1978. Dave Revering and cash for Blue. But BK had put a cap on how cash could be used in a deal.

    Instead of offering Moskau....Oester....and another 1 or 2 of the Reds minor leaugers... all they could do was trade Revering for Bair.

    The Giants traded about 5 players to get Blue.

    On a side note.....Finley might have been cheap but he knew ballplayers.
    The year before he traded Chuck Tanner (maybe a player also, i do not remember off the top of my head) and received ML... P Rick Langford...OF Tony Armas...P Doug Bair.

  12. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    WOY....the Reds pursued Blue after they traded for Seaver in the middle of 1977.
    That was after the trade, I was thinking it was the winter before.

    Fryman was a wild card, coming off a down year in strikeouts he always had a baserunner problem and his walk rate withthe Reds was incredible (5.38 per 9)

    Something about him and the Reds has never been fully flushed out IMO.

  13. #12
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Seaver comes across as one of the classiest great, great players in the history of this game. I am assuming he is coming for the Hall of Fame induction? I'll try to make that game.

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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Considering that Fryman pitched very well for another 2-3 years with CHI and then MTL again...... i figure it must have been Marty's fault.

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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger
    Considering that Fryman pitched very well for another 2-3 years with CHI and then MTL again...... i figure it must have been Marty's fault.
    Or it was too close to home for him.

    Fryman was a stud in the 1972 Tigers AL east run, too bad he couldn't harness it in Cincinnati.

  16. #15
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Seaver enjoyed stint with Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    If only Bowie Kuhn had not nullified the trade for Vide Blue, a Reds tandem of Seaver & Blue might have been able to have brought the 1978 NL West to the Reds.
    When that happened, IMO, it was more about the stormy relationship between Finley and Kuhn, and Kuhn trying to stick it to Finley who was selling off. The Reds just got stuck in the middle.

    But it pee'd me off when it occurred.

    Finley had attempted to sell Blue to the Yankees in mid-season, for $1.5 million. Kuhn vetoed that deal. While most of the other Oakland stars departed through free agency, Finley tried to send Blue to the Reds for $1.75 million plus Dave Revering. Kuhn vetoed that, too. After suffering through a 14-19 season in 1977, Blue was finally traded to the Giants for eight players and $390,000. He gave the Giants an 18-10 season.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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