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Thread: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

  1. #1
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    I know many here challenged the wisdom of carrying three catchers and advocated that the low man on the totem pole, David Ross, be sent packing. Lo and behold, two months into the season, and said David Ross is leading the team with a slugging percentage of .638 and OPS of 1.009. He has 4 HR in 47 AB and 12 RBI, 3 more than Scott Hatteberg, our platooning 1B baseman. His strong game calling also has certainly been a positive influence for Bronson Arroyo, the starting pitcher who Ross always catches and who is now leading the league with a 2.29 ERA.

    In hindsight, even David Ross' detractors must now admit, they were rather premature in rushing to judgment and calling for his head.

    I think a legitimate argument can still be made that we don't need three catchers. But if that arrangement gives way to a more traditional two catcher setup over the summer, it's not going to be David Ross getting shown the exit sign, but rather one of our veteran backstops, Valentin or Larue.

    Props to Krivksy for discovering yet another diamond in the rough, complementing his great find in Phillips. Now if Cody Ross can turn on the juice like David Ross has, this team might really start cooking with beans.

    Not that all these youngsters can overtake Dunn, Griffey and Lopez as offensive catalysts, but they have given us a much stronger bench than any of us imagined going into this season, and they also have given Krivsky some cards to play to acquire relief for our tattered and tarnished bullpen.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    Ross has certainly played well in limited duty, though I still don't like carrying three catchers with a 12-man pitching staff.

    Choice A for me has always been dealing Javier Valentin.

    If the Reds are going to carry three catchers after Cody Ross has to be put on the 25-man roster my hope would be the guy who goes is the 12th pitcher.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock
    I know many here challenged the wisdom of carrying three catchers and advocated that the low man on the totem pole, David Ross, be sent packing. Lo and behold, two months into the season, and said David Ross is leading the team with a slugging percentage of .638 and OPS of 1.009. He has 4 HR in 47 AB and 12 RBI, 3 more than Scott Hatteberg, our platooning 1B baseman. His strong game calling also has certainly been a positive influence for Bronson Arroyo, the starting pitcher who Ross always catches and who is now leading the league with a 2.29 ERA.

    In hindsight, even David Ross' detractors must now admit, they were rather premature in rushing to judgment and calling for his head.

    I think a legitimate argument can still be made that we don't need three catchers. But if that arrangement gives way to a more traditional two catcher setup over the summer, it's not going to be David Ross getting shown the exit sign, but rather one of our veteran backstops, Valentin or Larue.

    Props to Krivksy for discovering yet another diamond in the rough, complementing his great find in Phillips. Now if Cody Ross can turn on the juice like David Ross has, this team might really start cooking with beans.

    Not that all these youngsters can overtake Dunn, Griffey and Lopez as offensive catalysts, but they have given us a much stronger bench than any of us imagined going into this season, and they also have given Krivsky some cards to play to acquire relief for our tattered and tarnished bullpen.
    Hatteberg can be our emergency 3rd catcher. 368 career games behind the plate tells me that we only need 2 roster spots allocated for a catcher, and the Pickin Machine can put on the gear if we need him to in a pinch. His F% was never under .981 for any of those seasons at C, so he works for me.

    This means: either LaRue or Valentin are expendible.

    I've been a strong proponent of keeping Valentin, since he can bat from the left side of the plate, and is far more affordable than LaRue while being younger. Conversely, LaRue's age and price may lessen his trade value, so we either have to swallow his contract and age on our roster, or we have to pay for part of his contract for him to play for another team.

    Unfortunately, I don't see much of a market for either out there, except maybe the Yankees who have a fragile Posada, and a well known Reds backup named K. Stinnett.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Ross has certainly played well in limited duty, though I still don't like carrying three catchers with a 12-man pitching staff.

    Choice A for me has always been dealing Javier Valentin.

    If the Reds are going to carry three catchers after Cody Ross has to be put on the 25-man roster my hope would be the guy who goes is the 12th pitcher.
    3 catchers does not make much sense...there are a few teams who are currently in playoff contention who need catching help. Colorado is one and the Yankees could be another, depending on Posada's status with his back.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    I'm not as worried about it as some of you appear to be. Who would you rather carry? Do we need another IF guy? A 6th OF?

    With the defensive flexibility of Freel and Aurilia, we're not really lacking anybody, save maybe a defensive whiz in the IF. I'd rather keep the 3 man platoon with the .900+ OPS than carry some guy who will play a collection of 9th innings and get 75 ABs.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44
    3 catchers does not make much sense...there are a few teams who are currently in playoff contention who need catching help. Colorado is one and the Yankees could be another, depending on Posada's status with his back.
    I would love it if the Reds would try to pry Shealy or a bulpen arm away from Colorado with one of the catchers and/or Deno. They could really use some help behind the plate.
    Weathers' W/L when I am attending (2009): 0-1

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    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    This means: either LaRue or Valentin are expendible.

    Unfortunately, I don't see much of a market for either out there, except maybe the Yankees who have a fragile Posada, and a well known Reds backup named K. Stinnett.
    The interesting thing about catchers. They get injured more often and more severely than most positional players.

    So while there might not be a robust market for Larue or Valentin today, they could be the object of spirited bidding wars before the summer is over, once the inevitable happens, and somebody loses a Pierzynski, a Posada or a Pudge.

    Trust me, sometime before the trading deadline ends in July, someone is going to desperately need a catcher. I see Krivsky rushing to fill that need. He has shown he can pull the trigger, without cringing or looking over his shoulder, like the procrastinating Dan O'Brien.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    I don't know which catcher should go but one of them needs to. There isn't enough work to go around for three catchers.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock
    The interesting thing about catchers. They get injured more often and more severely than most positional players.

    So while there might not be a robust market for Larue or Valentin today, they could be the object of spirited bidding wars before the summer is over, once the inevitable happens, and somebody loses a Pierzynski, a Posada or a Pudge.

    Trust me, sometime before the trading deadline ends in July, someone is going to desperately need a catcher. I see Krivsky rushing to fill that need. He has shown he can pull the trigger, without cringing or looking over his shoulder, like the procrastinating Dan O'Brien.
    I think this is the most likely scenario and carrying all three leaves the flexibility to make our trade, not being pressured by roster move requirements. Now that may not last, but for right now, we're "sitting in the catbird's seat" as Red Barber would say.

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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    I'm not sure I get the complaint about three catchers.
    Imagine Javy Valentin is Jacob Cruz. Problem solved.
    All it does is mean they can pinch hit Valentin against the first RH out of the pen.
    Valentin's been pretty successful at that IIRC(The last game I saw he was 3-10 as a Pinch Hitter.)
    The Reds really aren't thin anywhere, but if the right deal comes along I'm always in favor of getting a pitcher for a PH/Catcher.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  12. #11
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking Outside the Catcher's Box

    In hindsight, even David Ross' detractors must now admit, they were rather premature in rushing to judgment and calling for his head.
    "Premature" is exactly the word that comes to mind when people start lauding Dave Ross's performance this season.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful


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