Dunn article in Enquirer today

[westofyou]

That is pretty amazing.

Not really.


WMP 12 times and 10 K's

The human walk machine - 13 times 8 K's

Jim Thome 8 times 5 k's

Chase utley 11 times 8 K's

Pat Burell 8 times 7 K's

Arod 13 times 8 K's

Giambi 8 times 6 K's

Edmonds 7 times and 6 K's

[dabvu2498]

I'm wondering how many times he's worked the 0-2 count to 3-2... I don't know how to find it.

And I was wondering how many of them were 3 pitch K's. I can't find that either.

[osuceltic]

It's snipey IMO, he pretty much implies that despite the talent he's yet to reach a level that pleases Mr Daughtery, who says "I'm not exactly the president of the Dunner Fan Club."

No duh...

Sportswriters generally begin their analysis with a position on an issue, I too have many issues that I advocate from time to time, but I'll do them by climbing through the numbers and coming out through that door.

PD looks to me like he knew his position before he wrote a word, and no amount of numbers or distancing himself from the visage he knows as Adam Dunn will change that.

It's a column. Good columnists take positions. Bad columnists regurgitate statistics. You can agree or disagree, but at least you think about a column that tries to argue a point.

What exactly was unfair about that column? Are you angry just because Dave Kingman's name was mentioned? Because you feel comparing Dunn to a low-average, high-strikeout, defensively inadequate power hitter was unfair? Even though he really didn't make that comparison? Or is anything that questions Adam Dunn unfair? Because I think this column did a pretty good job of summarizing the questions that polarize Reds fans when it comes to Dunn.

[SandyD]

PD looks to me like he knew his position before he wrote a word, and no amount of numbers or distancing himself from the visage he knows as Adam Dunn will change that.

I think that's exactly what he did. Something like writing an "in-class" essay for freshman comp rather than a research paper. You don't have sources available, so you have to write off the top of your head.

[SandyD]

It's a column. Good columnists take positions. Bad columnists regurgitate statistics. You can agree or disagree, but at least you think about a column that tries to argue a point.

What exactly was unfair about that column? Are you angry just because Dave Kingman's name was mentioned? Because you feel comparing Dunn to a low-average, high-strikeout, defensively inadequate power hitter was unfair? Even though he really didn't make that comparison? Or is anything that questions Adam Dunn unfair? Because I think this column did a pretty good job of summarizing the questions that polarize Reds fans when it comes to Dunn.

A good column would give evidence of his position ... statistical or otherwise. And perhaps offers some course of action.

PD here is simply stating an opinion that Dunn is something of a disappointment given his level of talent. If you wanted to make that argument, you'd have to at least offer evidence of where you think Dunn should be. Not just point out his shortcomings. And why you think he he could/should be there. And how you think he could get there. That's analysis.

[KittyDuran]

It's a column. Good columnists take positions. Bad columnists regurgitate statistics. You can agree or disagree, but at least you think about a column that tries to argue a point.

What exactly was unfair about that column? Are you angry just because Dave Kingman's name was mentioned? Because you feel comparing Dunn to a low-average, high-strikeout, defensively inadequate power hitter was unfair? Even though he really didn't make that comparison? Or is anything that questions Adam Dunn unfair? Because I think this column did a pretty good job of summarizing the questions that polarize Reds fans when it comes to Dunn.

THANK YOU! [and you get rep points]. PD is a columnist is the basic sense of the word - he writes on a variety of stuff - something like a jack of all trades but a master of none columnist. I really think that he must read RedsZone...

[osuceltic]

THANK YOU! [and you get rep points].

Wow! Can I cash those in like frequent flyer miles?

(Thanks!)

[KittyDuran]

It's snipey IMO, he pretty much implies that despite the talent he's yet to reach a level that pleases Mr Daughtery, who says "I'm not exactly the president of the Dunner Fan Club."

No duh...

Sportswriters generally begin their analysis with a position on an issue, I too have many issues that I advocate from time to time, but I'll do them by climbing through the numbers and coming out through that door.

PD looks to me like he knew his position before he wrote a word, and no amount of numbers or distancing himself from the visage he knows as Adam Dunn will change that.

Agreed - no problem with that. But the article hits on all points Dunn - which is hashed and rehashed each day on this forum. That's what I like about it.

[westofyou]

What exactly was unfair about that column? Are you angry just because Dave Kingman's name was mentioned?

I never said it was "unfair" and I never said I was "angry"

I said it was "snipey" as in it he really did nothing more than stoke the flames, he mentioned he "wasn't" a fan. Which in my mind means he already had a position on the issue.

As for Dave Kingman, I think it's a inept comparison.

Want to talk indifferent fielders?

How about Reggie Jackson?

Oh that's right, he's not tall and white.

[osuceltic]

PD looks to me like he knew his position before he wrote a word, and no amount of numbers or distancing himself from the visage he knows as Adam Dunn will change that.

But better defense, better clutch hitting and fewer strikeouts might change that. Some people believe there are "lies, damn lies and statistics." And there's some truth to that.

And maybe, just maybe, his position doesn't need to be changed.

How about Reggie Jackson?

Oh that's right, he's not tall and white.

Or criticized by his team's fans for failing in the clutch.

Come on, WOY ... that's beneath you.

See, his column nailed the pulse of Reds fans on Adam Dunn. Does Daugherty have his own opinion? Absolutely, but he's asking the questions all of us are asking (OK, not all of us ... some consider Dunn a sacred cow never to be questioned).

[westofyou]

But better defense, better clutch hitting and fewer strikeouts might change that. Some people believe there are "lies, damn lies and statistics." And there's some truth to that.

And maybe, just maybe, his position doesn't need to be changed.


Or criticized by his team's fans for failing in the clutch.

Come on, WOY ... that's beneath you.

See, his column nailed the pulse of Reds fans on Adam Dunn. Does Daugherty have his own opinion? Absolutely, but he's asking the questions all of us are asking (OK, not all of us ... some consider Dunn a sacred cow never to be questioned).

Hey, Dunn's game is full of valid questions.

I just feel that some need to be applied to a 26 year old and not a seasoned 35 year old.

It's always Kingman and Deer from people who think the statistics "lie" I guess I'd think they lied to if they keep saying Schmidt/Killebrew/Jackson/Howard and not the aforementioned free swingers.

Question all you want, but comp him correctly is all I'm asking for.

[pedro]

Sounds to me like Paul D'oh-erty doesn't have the balls to say what he really wants.

[osuceltic]

Hey, Dunn's game is full of valid questions.

I just feel that some need to be applied to a 26 year old and not a seasoned 35 year old.

It's always Kingman and Deer from people who think the statistics "lie" I guess I'd think they lied to if they keep saying Schmidt/Killebrew/Jackson/Howard and not the aforementioned free swingers.

Question all you want, but comp him correctly is all I'm asking for.

And that's just it. You say those are correct comps for Dunn, and some people -- Daugherty obviously included -- think it's nuts to compare him to those guys.

You say "comp him correctly" but what you mean is "comp him the way I do."

I can't speak to Killebrew or Howard, but I can provide some perspective on Schmidt and Jackson. And I'd argue that comparing him to those guys doesn't help your argument. Because if the stats say they're the same, then anyone who has seen all three is going to disregard those stats.

Clearly Dave Kingman isn't the perfect comparison. Neither is Reggie Jackson or Mike Schmidt. There is a lot of room in between.

[KittyDuran]

I just feel that some need to be applied to a 26 year old and not a seasoned 35 year old.

But he wasn't comparing Dunn to Kingman!!!

[dabvu2498]

Sounds to me like Paul D'oh-erty doesn't have the balls to say what he really wants.

I agree. And that's why Jim Rome (I can't believe I'm referencing Jim Rome) called the Cincy media "soft." I happen to agree with Rome on this one and only point.