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Thread: The value of a good manager

  1. #1
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    The value of a good manager

    I know many people have said that a manager's value to a baseball team is minimal to none, and that wins and losses are the responsibility of the players on the field.

    The Detroit Tigers haven't had a winning season in 13 years. With no real major acquisitions other than Kenny Rogers, Jim Leyland (okay, granted Leyland has a sub .500 career win pct.) has the Tigers playing excellent ball.

    Buddy Bell's Kansas City Royals are abyssmal. Bell has never really managed a good team...or his managing style stinks. The Royals, on paper, look like they should be better than they have been.

    Is it possible to say that the Tigers' success and the Royals' failure could be somewhat attributed to their managers? Likewise, Jerry Narron managed the Reds to a .500 record during his stint as manager last year. This year, they've played better under Narron. They clearly reacted more positively to Narron's style than Miley's.

    My question is, does the manager of a baseball team play more of a factor in the success or failure of his team than previously thought? Is it possible that some guy's winning attitude spills over to the team, while managers who accept and get used to losing don't motivate their players to winning ballgames the same way managers with winning attitudes? Is this one of the intangibles that so many old timers speak of?
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    Buddy Bell's Kansas City Royals are abyssmal. Bell has never really managed a good team...or his managing style stinks. The Royals, on paper, look like they should be better than they have been.
    Really? It's a team loaded with over the hill and overrated veterans. I pretty much knew they'd be in a dogfight with the Pirates for the honor of being the worst team in baseball.

    A terrible manager can hurt a team much more than a good manager can help a team.

  4. #3
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    No manager in the history of baseball could make that Royals team a winner.

  5. #4
    got alil captain in u?
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by James B.
    No manager in the history of baseball could make that Royals team a winner.
    it wouldn't matter they need to fire the manager and get rid of tha owner heck if donald sterling can change allan baird sure as heck can spend alil money and make them respectable

  6. #5
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    I posted this on a different thread (before I saw this one) and seeing as how I haven't yet gotten an answer, it's probably better suited for this one:

    Question: Had he been managing at that point in the game, do you think JN would have pinch hit for Phillips today? For Ross?
    I know hindsight is 20/20, but I thought at the time that both these moves were good ones... as it turned out, they were.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  7. #6
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    A good manager can enable his players to win games. A bad manager can cause his players to lose games.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    I posted this on a different thread (before I saw this one) and seeing as how I haven't yet gotten an answer, it's probably better suited for this one:



    I know hindsight is 20/20, but I thought at the time that both these moves were good ones... as it turned out, they were.

    Don't managers usually find a way to manage the game after being thrown out?

  9. #8
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    IMO, most of a manager's value revolves around getting his team ready to play the game. As a for instance, Jack McKeon was no great gameday manager, but his Reds clubs (particularly the '99 team) showed up ready to play each and every day. They didn't waver when they were in a close fight. They didn't let tough losses fester.

    Sparky Anderson may have been the best I've ever seen at it.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #9
    Can he be stopped?
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    I posted this on a different thread (before I saw this one) and seeing as how I haven't yet gotten an answer, it's probably better suited for this one:



    I know hindsight is 20/20, but I thought at the time that both these moves were good ones... as it turned out, they were.
    Jerry was involved in the decision

    Reds manager Jerry Narron wasn't in the dugout to witness the Reds' thrilling come-from-behind victory over the Diamondbacks on Sunday. But, he did have a hand in the outcome.
    Narron, who was ejected in the seventh inning by home-plate umpire Larry Vanover for arguing a called third strike on Adam Dunn, had retreated to the tunnel adjacent to the Reds' dugout.

    With Austin Kearns on first, and the Reds trailing by a run in the bottom of the ninth inning, Narron consulted with the Reds acting manager, bench coach Bucky Dent, on the decision to use catcher Javier Valentin as a pinch-hitter to face Diamondbacks closer Jose Valverde.

    "There were about five different things we could've done in that inning," said Narron. "Kearns got the [infield single] and that just kind of set things up."
    5/28 Game Recap
    Tom Shearn... who knew?

    Reds reccord when I attend in 2007: 6-1

  11. #10
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    There's something to be said for making up lineups, keeping pitch counts, and bullpen decisions. A good manager can maximize the value of the 25 man roster. A bad manager can make boneheaded pinch hitting decisions, wear out his pitchers, and regularly start guys who have no business playing every day.

  12. #11
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunner44
    Jerry was involved in the decision

    5/28 Game Recap
    Looks like he was involved in the decision to pinch hit Javey, but not the Kearns pinch hit.

    I thought it was a gutsy move to bat Kearns in place of Phillips... if it was Jerry's decision, I'm thrilled... if it was Bucky's, I hope JN learned from it and makes more gutsy moves like that.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  13. #12
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Outshined_One
    There's something to be said for making up lineups, keeping pitch counts, and bullpen decisions. A good manager can maximize the value of the 25 man roster. A bad manager can make boneheaded pinch hitting decisions, wear out his pitchers, and regularly start guys who have no business playing every day.
    I agree in theory, but I'll tell what really impresses me: Guys like Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa who seemingly manage to wring something out of everyone who walks into their clubhouse.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #13
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I agree in theory, but I'll tell what really impresses me: Guys like Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa who seemingly manage to wring something out of everyone who walks into their clubhouse.
    Point taken, although TLR is the kind of guy who uses 4 pitchers to get three outs in an inning. He tends to overthink his decisions, ya know?

  15. #14
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Outshined_One
    Point taken, although TLR is the kind of guy who uses 4 pitchers to get three outs in an inning. He tends to overthink his decisions, ya know?
    True, particularly in the playoffs. Pinch bunting Kerry Robinson for Mark McGwire down one against Curt Schilling in 2001 is a perfect case in point.

    Yet he still does remarkable work in getting players prepared to play the game.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #15
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: The value of a good manager

    The Reds have never made the play-offs with out a tough manager.

    Sparky, MacNamera, Sweet Lou, Johnson, Trader Jack
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card


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