Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

[Red Leader]

All checks come to me, remember? Let me worry about the money; you don't need to worry your great mind with such a small concern.

I have now retained BA's law firm as my own. They will be working with Jim Coombs. Expect to hear from them soon. I can't believe this, I thought you were my friend, and now it turns out the ban stick is only $9.95!

Alright, back to local programming.

[Shaggy Sanchez]

I know a lot of this has been touched on but I thought I would throw out my thoughts since I did just sit here and read all 17 pages.

1. I disagree with having a thread for topics that have been beaten to death. There will always be people that are new or old to the board that will want to talk about Dunn striking out, Griffey moving positions, Deno needing to be called up, etc. I don't believe it states anywhere that you have to respond to these posts and I think this causes problems sometimes. I know that everyone gets tired of seeing these threads start over and over and when someone goes into a thread with a differing opinion or the stats to back up fact for the 30th time they start to get a little short with the people that started the thread. I remember a few yeas ago when Dunn threads would start there was always a good baseball debate going on between both sides and now it seems that the people (not all people) that have been seeing these threads so much come off a little cold with their opinions/facts and then we see arguments start.

2. I think a lot of people take things that are said on this board way to serious and sometimes need to lighten up a little. I have seen way to many people both old and new get bent out of shape for things that really weren't all that important. I have seen situations where 2 different people said similar things that were sarcastic and one get taken serious while the other gets laughed at.

3. Hiding the rep points/join date, I don't think this is going to do much because you will be able to figure out who has enough points just by reading some threads on ORG. I have never been a huge fan of this system because for people that don't post much there really isn't much chance to get the points to post in ORG. I feel that people can give negative points way to freely and don't always use them as they are intended. If someone says or does something that annoys them or is a pet peeve of theirs they shouldn't have the right to give you neg points but it does happen.

I have been coming to this site for 3 years and I think it has changed both for the good and the bad. It seemed more like a community when I first started coming around and I enjoyed posting more because it didn't always turn into the same argument or just pure jibber-jabber. I think that it is a much more hostile enviornment now and there is an us against them type of mentality that is very annoying. I don't think that this problem can be attached to just the new members or the old members because I see people form both sides doing a lot of the same type of things. I do however see the new members get called on things a lot more than the people that have been around when they do/say the same things and that isn't right whether you have gained respect or not.

[zombie-a-go-go]

glad to have you back Zombie, I missed your rational, even-handed moderation style

It's a little more work on the front end, but afterwards you don't have to deal with the "why me? I'm innocent" PMs and all that rot.

Anyway, seriously, thanks for the welcome back, everyone.

[zombie-a-go-go]

I have now retained BA's law firm as my own. They will be working with Jim Coombs. Expect to hear from them soon. I can't believe this, I thought you were my friend, and now it turns out the ban stick is only $9.95!

Alright, back to local programming.

Crap.

Time to move to a non-extradition-treaty country.

[Roy Tucker]

A couple technology suggestions...

- A wait time after joining RZ before being able to start a new thread. It could be based on calendar time, # of posts, or the r-word level.

For example, you would have to be a member of the board for a month before starting a thread. (Originally suggested by Caveat Emperor over on ocher's board)

- Provide a search FAQ with examples.

[macro]

Neat idea. it'll never work. People want there own stamp. People want to start new threads. Name a topic that hasn't been beat to death. so far this season we have discussed:



and on and on and on. All of the above have been discussed ad nauseum, and quite frankly they should. A new poster doesn't want to search for a post from 2003 to discuss why Dunn should cut down on his K's. That poster wants to post. As a moderator if you find the post should be merged, then merge it. It is ridiculous to say a topic has outlived it's usefulness on a MESSAGE BOARD.

You're implying that the list of Reds-related an baseball-related topics is finite, when it isn't. New things happen with the organization and with the rest of baseball every week, if not every day. There will always be new things to talk about, things that haven't happened yet. I'll admit that sometimes something "new" is actually a variation on something that has already happened.

I agree that it's unreasonable to resurrect a thread that is over a year or so old. I can't imagine merging a thread started today with one that hasn't been touched in 18 months or more. I was referring to the repeats of topics that hit the board just a few weeks earlier, and are still fresh in the minds of those who were here to discuss them. Admittedly, sometimes a story or situation will take a significant turn, and a new thread is appropriate.

(I guess I should also clarify that I am referring to the starting of threads about repeat topics, which really isn't as much of a problem as the derailment of several threads by inserting the same opinions repeatedly. There is no cure as simple as merging threads for that.)

I don't mind merging threads, not at all. And your agreement that merging related threads is not inappropriate tells me that we aren't really that much in disagreement.

[vaticanplum]

A couple technology suggestions...

- A wait time after joining RZ before being able to start a new thread. It could be based on calendar time, # of posts, or the r-word level.

For example, you would have to be a member of the board for a month before starting a thread. (Originally suggested by Caveat Emperor over on ocher's board)

I dunno...my very first post here was starting a thread. I had a Reds question, I did a google search for a Reds message board, and came up with this. I got several helpful responses and for that reason decided to stick around. I think a lot of people hit on message boards when they have specific questions that don't necessarily fit into already existing threads. In my case, this question was for purposes of research and I couldn't have waited a month. I did do a search first to see if it had already been answered, but I don't think people would have been irritated if it had.

New threads don't usually bother me. If it's not worth responding to it dies down quickly, or if it is in poor taste or whatever it gets closed. Plus the titles are usually clear enough that I can choose not to read them.

If it's a question of bandwidth that's one thing, but I don't think this particular move would affect the quality of the board all that much. But I don't have too many problems as it is, so my two cents may be worth less.

[REDREAD]

I always wondered why people click on a thread that they feel has been beaten to death? If you've just discussed it a couple days ago and you don't want to read it, wouldn't it be easier to just skip the thread, instead of complaining and asking it to be merged/moved/whatever?

Personally, I don't like the idea of the "dead horse" forum. People are going to get offended when their threads are moved there. Not to mention, we would see many threads get littered with comments like "this should be in the dead horse forum".

[paintmered]

I always wondered why people click on a thread that they feel has been beaten to death? If you've just discussed it a couple days ago and you don't want to read it, wouldn't it be easier to just skip the thread, instead of complaining and asking it to be merged/moved/whatever?

Personally, I don't like the idea of the "dead horse" forum. People are going to get offended when their threads are moved there. Not to mention, we would see many threads get littered with comments like "this should be in the dead horse forum".

I think part of the reason is the same reason people rubber-neck when they pass a roadside accident. People like to watch a good fight.

I agree with your dead horse forum comments.

[SunDeck]

Anyway, seriously, thanks for the welcome back, everyone.

Great to have you back. Pay the pizza guy when he gets here, will ya?

[TRF]

You're implying that the list of Reds-related an baseball-related topics is finite, when it isn't. New things happen with the organization and with the rest of baseball every week, if not every day. There will always be new things to talk about, things that haven't happened yet. I'll admit that sometimes something "new" is actually a variation on something that has already happened.

I agree that it's unreasonable to resurrect a thread that is over a year or so old. I can't imagine merging a thread started today with one that hasn't been touched in 18 months or more. I was referring to the repeats of topics that hit the board just a few weeks earlier, and are still fresh in the minds of those who were here to discuss them. Admittedly, sometimes a story or situation will take a significant turn, and a new thread is appropriate.

(I guess I should also clarify that I am referring to the starting of threads about repeat topics, which really isn't as much of a problem as the derailment of several threads by inserting the same opinions repeatedly. There is no cure as simple as merging threads for that.)

I don't mind merging threads, not at all. And your agreement that merging related threads is not inappropriate tells me that we aren't really that much in disagreement.

Of course it's finite. Only my wisdom is infinite. Yes there are some discussions that are new topics: the signing/releasing of a player, a new sensation in the minors, the draft, but for the most part the list i gave was pretty complete.

Here is the thing. For Redszone not to become SoSH we need to attract new posters. There are growing pains when it comes to that. You see fewer duplicate threads in ORG than in Reds Live for a reason... experience. Nobody in ORG minds when threads get merged.

Storage of threads isn't as much of an issue as overall bandwidth usage. Consolidating threads helps as we don't have to look through 10 different threads reading the same material, but new posters generally want to get their feet wet with their own thread. That thread may be a rehash of a topic everyone is all to familiar with, but we have to allow new posters to grow into their role in this community. That means sometimes we'll see multiple threads on the same topic. Merge them, explain why and move on. No harm, no foul.

[Spitball]

Maybe some of these idea's might be good for all of us to ponder:

Watch your thoughts. They become words.
Watch your words. They become actions.
Watch your actions. They become habits.
Watch your habits. They become your character.
Watch your character. It becomes your destiny.

I won't quote your whole post in the interest of space, but I like what you posted.

I have several quotes on the walls of my classroom, but I think this one is applicable to all people:

What is important is to keep learning, to enjoy challenge, and to tolerate ambiguity. In the end there are no certain answers.-Martina Horner, President of Radcliffe College

[red-in-la]

What is important is to keep learning, to enjoy challenge, and to tolerate ambiguity. In the end there are no certain answers.-Martina Horner, President of Radcliffe College

The death of objective truth.....

[TStuck]

You're in Boss and GIK's living room.

You were invited here to hang out with other baseball fans.

You are benefitting from the labor and imagination of two guys who saw a need and filled it. They filled it so well that it's the premier living room for Cincinnati Reds fans to hang out in anywhere.

All they ask is that you play nice and follow those rules down at the bottom of the page.

But it's still their living room and they get to decide how wild the party gets.

Ah... here is the heart of this entire discussion. Everyone needs to realize that every one who is a member here enjoys the PRIVILEGE of posting here. I repeat this is a PRIVILEGE not a RIGHT. The owners of this board "invite" us to come and discuss a favorite topic - our beloved Reds. Since it is their house, THE OWNERS have the right to establish the ground rules (which they have) and enforce them as they see fit (which they try to do). As house guests, we are asked to observe and abide by the rules. Come on folks, this is etiquette 101. Let's stop all the feuding and get back to doing what this place was created for - TALKIN' REDS BASEBALL!

[Ltlabner]

The more I think about this, and the more posts I read convinces me that what changes need to be made to the board are this: nothing. I wouldn't change a thing.

The rules are in place to manage offesnive, attacking, troll-esque, ranting, excessivley negative behavior and the ability to lock threads, delete threads, boot individuals, etc is already in place for the mods. To help vets mentor new people in the ways of "redszone" the rep system is already in place to reward good posts and the neg reps are there so the board members can "self-moderate". For the new people the ability to gain said rep is already in place via making good posts that stand out and add something to the discussion. The ability to contact an individual who offends or hurts your feelings is in place already (ie the private message feature) so differences can be worked out in private between adults.

The ablity to merge threads to deal with duplicates exists. The ability to deal with threads that bore you exists (i.e. don't read it). If you want to follow the game and make game related comments you are able to do so via the game thread. If you want to follow the game and make random, off the cuff, off-topic and/or off-color comments you have the ability to do so via the chat room feature.

We have the all tools we need thanks to the generoisty of others. The real question is whether we will be responsible enough to use them to our advantage to enhance our Reds forum experience or simply focus on what we want, what we think, and how we feel life should happen.