Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
Again folks, we need to stop categorizing people.
You were doing well there. Categorizing people is bad because it creates unnecessary division.

Most of the fights on this board are "stats vs. non stats" based. If the stat guys would step back and realize that baseball is not played in a computer, and the non stat guys would step back and realize that stats do play an important part of the game this place would be alot better off.

Whether the people that do it like to admit they do it or not, there is a definete tone that if you don't have stats to back up what you're saying, whatever it is you're saying is not valid. That has to stop.
And there ya' just categorized people; creating an unnecessary (and quite harmful) division. So as not to be misunderstood, let me break it down for everyone...

I have the right to have an opinion. However, because I also understand that I have no right to an unopposed opinion, I use every last bit of information I can get my hands on before forming said opinion. The quality and volume of that supporting data determines the quality of the opinion. That's crucial because the closer an opinion is to fact, the less likely it will be that the opinion will be opposed and the more likely it is that said opinion will be accurate.

What does that paragraph have to do with stats? Nothing, because it's a truism that transcends baseball conversation.

Now go back to that paragraph and erase all but the first sentence. Then imagine an environment where that sole sentence takes precedence over all else. Well, it's not all that tough to imagine it. Just go to mlb.com and follow the links to the Reds message board over there.

Every single time that simply having an opinion is more important to some folks than having an informed opinion, we see one of these threads. And every time we see one of these threads people make the mistake of thinking that it's a rep point problem or a board division problem or a privilege problem or a "stats vs. non-stats" issue. All red herrings.

Plainly stated, it's an issue of some folks who don't want to bring their "A" game to an "A" game community and/or who have no interest in developing an "A" game once here. When told that more is expected via logical debate, they grump about it because they seem to feel that simply having an opinion is good enough regardless of whether or not that opinion makes any sort of rational sense. We've even seen examples of some folks who want to use the word "opinion" as an insulatory shield against opposition. And we've seen that very recently. Funny, because I've always thought that just having an opinion doesn't protect me from being 100% completely wrong.

Luckily many figure out in short order that the expectation is different because this is not your garden variety internet message board. Those who don't figure it out end up behaving in such a way that action is mandated. So another one of these threads pops up. Boss is a pretty diplomatic guy but I'd wager he's getting pretty sick of having to post the same topic about every six months.

Excepting personal attacks, if someone doesn't like the "tone" of the board there's a simple solution. Adjust or leave. If a poster doesn't like having an opinion challenged then that poster has every right to go elsewhere for their baseball conversation. No one is being held here against their will. Everyone has access to the rules. Everyone is held to the same standard. And no one is immune to having their position challenged. If someone is afraid of posting an opinion for fear of being opposed, then PM a veteran poster before typing word one into the very fashionable post window and they will help.

I don't say any of that to demean anyone or to tell anyone to go away. I say it because it's true. If I don't like it here, I can go away. If I don't want to go away, then I have some responsibility to myself and to the board to figure out what I need to be doing in order to stay. No reason to sugarcoat any of that because it's not just the way Redszone works- it's how life works.

If folks want to stay, then contribute. If they're unhappy that their contribution appears to be unappreciated, then I might suggest that the contribution is unworthy of appreciation. Sorry, but that's another truth. Posters who type sound, expressive, educated, informative posts get rep points faster than others. Way it goes. No reason to tell anyone any different. If someone wants rep points all they need to do is type something profound, eminently enjoyable, or consistently entirely accurate. If someone wants appreciation, then they need to type something that's actually appreciable. Seems simple enough.

There's no slight intended if posters are't getting rep points. There's no conspiracy to keep posters out of the ORG board. There's no "Redszone 10" gladhanding or high fiving for the "beatdown" (a silly concept) of a poster who types an invalid opinion and then ends up sinking with it when he/she could be swimming.

In fact, there's nothing wrong with this board that can't be fixed by thinking a bit before clicking on the "Submit Reply" button. Yet we've got a multiple-page thread talking about all the issues that aren't when all that needs to be done is type good posts that say smart things.