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Thread: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

  1. #1
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    All,

    It's no secret that the overall quality of the board has gone down hill lately and I'll be the first to admit it. I think that there are several reasons for this, but I'm not really interested in debating who's responsible for this and who isn't. I'm much more interested in solving the problem over the long haul.

    One thing that GIK and I have always tried to do is listen to the users of the site by giving them a voice in the way things are run. While I admit that it's harder for the board to work as a democracy with an increasingly large member list, it's something that I feel still can work. I'd like to use this thread for members to air out their grieviences as to how things can be improved so that we can spend our time discussing Reds' baseball and eliminate the nastiness that has occurred. I do not want to see individuals called out or demeaning names used, such as statheads and the like. Concerns should remain in this thread as opposted to within other threads, like I've seen recently. I don't want to see this thread become a microcosm of the problems that plague the board. I want to see things improved and this thread is a good place to start.

    I also want to use this thread to remind everyone the purpose of distributing reputation (for the users that it applies to). It should be used for posts that you think represent the positive quality that has been associated with RedZone. I've seen two uses that are not the proper way to give out reputation. First, reputation should not be given out for the purpose of attempting to have all users "promoted" to the Old Red Guard. This is something that should be earned by making quality posts and not just because someone has less then 200 reputation points.

    Secondly, I've seen negative reputation left for personal matters, i.e. two users have a disagreement that turns nasty and it's "settled" by negative reputation being left. This should never been done; instead, the users should try to work out the issue privately. If that can't be done, then they should place each other on ignore. Administrators and moderators should not receive private messages and/or emails regarding reputation they feel is unjust. We have never gotten into the habit of moderating reputation because it undermines the purpose of the system, which is to let the users of the board determine what is and isn't a quality post. These type of matters should be handled between the users in question - the administrators and moderators should never been involved in these type of matters. Additionally, we've never had to revoke the ability to leave reputation, but if users continue to knowingly misuse it, we will. Finally, I want to remind everyone that reputation members should never be discussed on the board, such as discussing reputation that has been left for you or asking for reputation points. If I continue to see this, the offending users will be disciplined appropriately.

    Since I'm asking for people's two cents (again, in a respectful manner) I'll start with my own thoughts. I think that one of the problems is the way that newcomers become acclimated to the board. RedsZone has existed for over six years now and I think it's safe to say that it's not your average message board. We have different rules here and it's my responsibility to ensure that they are clearly communicated to the users (new and old). This is a process that I think can and will be improved.

    When new users come aboard, they're often not familiar with the fact that we've already covered a number of frequently discussed topics. As a result, some of the responses to their posts are not particularly friendly. It's important that we keep in mind what's allowed on other web sites may not be allowed here. We should all keep in mind that we were all new around here at one time or another and do what is necessary to help new users adjust to the way we do things around here.

    In short, I know that the system we have in place here works because I've seen it work. The concept of two forums and a reputation system is something that most forums don't use, but they're things that have proven to work for us. If the administrators and moderators continue to see the overall rudeness to other users, we will be much less tolerant in dealing with it than we have been to date. Everyone can do their part to improve things by ensuring that others are treated with respect. Having said that, I'm interested to collect your thoughts (again, in a civil manner) about what we can do to improve things around here.

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  3. #2
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I think there should be a "beaten to death" forum. Topics (say, like Dunn, K's, and sac flies for example) could be sent to the "beaten to death" forum.

    If someone wants to keep arguing about it, they can go in there. Two men enter, one man leaves: THUNDERDOME!!!!
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I like discussing those issues BUT, if they are so boring to those old timers that it becomes bothersome, then I agree that maybe they should be conducted elsewhere. I am new to this board and I do try to be polite to all even if I disagree, I figure it's mostly opinions and everyone's got one

  5. #4
    saboforthird
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Boss-Hog, please allow me to be the first to respond in this thread. Some things I have noticed (since you asked that the guilty not be mentioned, I won't bother pasting links to specific thread) are:

    - two posters posting essentially the same thing, but the poster with the larger number of posts (often it's a huge difference in post counts) will be treated as "in the know", and I suspect would also be given postive reputation points

    - certain posters make it clear that their intention is to "suck up" to those with large post counts, in hopes of being given positive rep points in return

    - certain posters "seem" nice and welcome the community spirit, but once they have put in their time here, so to speak, they turn nasty. They start treating other posters in the vein of "I'm part of RZ, move along". Hate to sound cynical, but it's what I feel I have witnessed in reading the stuff that certain posters have been writing to each other within threads

    - The "Thanks for the callup!" threads in the ORG forum rub me the wrong way. I guess my feelings on this stem from the fact that I don't like the reputation point system. I've always felt that Internet forums should be about community spirit and sharing knowledge (and OPINIONS without facts to support them) with one another, and that rep point systems foster a competitive poster environment in which opinions are not welcome (here it does seem to be the case). In a nutshell, I feel that it's all nice and well that a poster gains posting privileges to ORG (I could care less, I just enjoy reading what others here have to say about the Reds), but saying that you're appreciative of the callup sends a bad message, in my opinion. Who exactly is calling you up? Are your opinions any more worthy than those that don't get called up? I hardly think so.

    If you covered any of this in your opening post, BH, I apologize. It will take me another reading in order to digest everything.

  6. #5
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    I think there should be a "beaten to death" forum. Topics (say, like Dunn, K's, and sac flies for example) could be sent to the "beaten to death" forum.

    If someone wants to keep arguing about it, they can go in there. Two men enter, one man leaves: THUNDERDOME!!!!
    We could call it "And you may ask yourself" after the Talking Heads song "Once in a lifetime"

    And you may ask yourself
    How do I work this?
    And you may ask yourself
    Where is that large automobile?
    And you may tell yourself
    This is not my beautiful house!
    And you may tell yourself
    This is not my beautiful wife!

    same as it ever was
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  7. #6
    Member The Baumer's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I think if moderators are going to publicly name or call out posters for being nasty or argumentive in a thread, they need to name and call out every poster who has been nasty and argumentive. I have seen moderators jump on their high horse and wag their finger at a new poster, but fully brush over the fact that their buddies with high post counts were doing the exact same thing in the very same thread.

    On the same note, I have seen threads where people will gang up on a new poster and the thread is not closed or visited by a moderator. However if a gang of new posters gang up on a poster with a high post count, moderators jump out of the woodwork reciting board code & policy. There is too much of a difference in attitude there.

    Mods should moderate according to the board rules, and enforce these rules to everyone. There are times when I feel like moderators make decisions based on the question "Do I personally like or agree what is being said in this thread?" That takes things into subjective territory, where everyone has their own definition of what constitutes 'right' or 'wrong' or 'intelligent' or 'offensive'.

    You can't moderate according to subjective principles.

  8. #7
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Boss,
    I appreciate the board so much. It is a great service to Reds fans. It stinks when the game thread gets hijacked, but I hate that the game thread here (Live) is deserted. I just want to talk Reds baseball. With nobody here to discuss with, you get frustrated. It seems like there is a "take my ball and go home" strategy from some. I hope it can be worked out to have the game thread in a common area, but unfortunately I can understand if it cannot.
    If we weren't all crazy we would go insane.-Jimmy Buffett

  9. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I think one of the problems with the argueing is that as new members come along, you are adding in more personalities and opinions and when you get so many of those, there are going to be members who will disagree with eachother more often. Ideas will clash and sometimes it just gets bad becuase each side believes that they are right and the other is wrong (guilty).

    With that said, I am not completely sure how to keep that from happening because people will always disagree with others, but the ignore list is a nice place to start if people are constantly argueing with the same people over and over.

    Redszone is however about 50 times more positive than it is negative and I know that I enjoy posting and reading here every day. Where else can you have so many Reds and baseball fans come together and talk and chat and trade information and ideas? Nowhere I have found like this place.

  10. #9
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    We need to keep in mind that this is a message board. It's kind of ridiculous that its come to this. Not trying to sound like a jerk but some people need to get a life. While I am one to check on here throughout the day, I realize its a message board. While I occasionally will say something to someone on here, I have actual friends outside of my computer room. Cheer up everybody and have fun!
    We'll win it all next year...

  11. #10
    saboforthird
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by bthomasiscool
    We need to keep in mind that this is a message board. It's kind of ridiculous that its come to this. Not trying to sound like a jerk but some people need to get a life. While I am one to check on here throughout the day, I realize its a message board. While I occasionally will say something to someone on here, I have actual friends outside of my computer room. Cheer up everybody and have fun!
    Thanks for summarizing what took me a page-long effort to do. There are a lot of folks here who could easily strike newcomers as "not having a life". When discussions turn to "you're not posting facts, therefore your opinion doesn't count", it's no longer a "community".

  12. #11
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I think a way to prevent disputes being handled by rep points is removing the negative rep alltogether. IMO, it really doesn't serve a purpose. Another idea is moving the positive rep from 200-300.

    Just my thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  13. #12
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    If you remove negative rep points then what's the point of the rep system?

    I like Raisors idea of a 'been there done that' forum.
    Go Gators!

  14. #13
    saboforthird
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I don't think there is ever a good reason for a rep point system. I've not ever seen it work effectively on any other forum, anywhere. It always seems to isolate posters, kill any notion of community spirit. If I were to ever implement a rep point system, it would be used ONLY to isolate those posters that attack other posters or attempt form cliques with other posters. Eliminate the bad apples, socially.

  15. #14
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by RAS
    I like discussing those issues BUT, if they are so boring to those old timers that it becomes bothersome, then I agree that maybe they should be conducted elsewhere. I am new to this board and I do try to be polite to all even if I disagree, I figure it's mostly opinions and everyone's got one
    I disagree. If an "old-timer" see a subject that he/she thinks is beaten to death, all that poster has to do is ignore it. We don't have to respond to every thread that is started, and, IMO, it is often better not to respond than to respond with a comment (often that comes off as condescending even if that's not the intent) like "here we go again") (For example, watch what happens if a new poster tries to defend or criticize a player based on batting averagel.)

    At some point, the posters who have been here for a while and have made their positions known on subjects like these just should realize that they cannot make that point to every single new poster, or, at least, to do so in a way that does not make the new person feel unwelcome.

  16. #15
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    A better option IMO for the rep system would be to turn the viewing of the number off and also the green bars, nobody is going to get upset about a number they can't see, then the system will have to be used the way it was intended, to give reps for good posts and negs for bad ones, no "Well lemme rep him over 200" because nobody will have any idea where everyone is at.

    Just a thought.
    Go Gators!


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