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Thread: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

  1. #76
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    It's come back in the last year I think.

    Popped into one thread and someone was called a jackass 3 posts in.

    Great place
    So you can call people names like "jackass" and not get kicked off?

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  3. #77
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    It's come back in the last year I think.

    Popped into one thread and someone was called a jackass 3 posts in.

    Great place
    I'm shocked it took that long

    Send some Sierra Mist their way, ok?
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  4. #78
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by Newman4
    So you can call people names like "jackass" and not get kicked off?
    "Pompous windbags" too.

    That was a poster referring to redszone by the way
    Go Gators!

  5. #79
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    There's a rep system?

  6. #80
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    "Pompous windbags" too.

    That was a poster referring to redszone by the way
    I feel like this guy now....

    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  7. #81
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    When I was new I came in here with a lot of opinions about the game that were not in agreement with many of the people here. Many of my opinions were not very well informed but the older members treated me with a good degree of respect and patiently explained a lot of things. I looked at everything with a fairly open mind and was willing to rethink many of my opinions. When I still found myself in disagreement with someone else, I always found this a good place to discuss those disagreements in a civil manner. This doesn't happen as much now. If folks didn't take disagreements personally and attack back when their ideas are challenged we wouldn't be having so many of these other issues. Everyone needs to calm down a bit and realize that ideas and opinions are up for debate and should not lead to personal attacks. I really don't have problems with the rep system, but that's easy for me to say. I try to reward good content when I'm on here, but I can see where the system can lead to a degree of jealosy or complaints about a "caste system." I don't know if hiding rep scores would solve this problem or not, but I wouldn't have a problem either way. It would still be nice if there was a way to see if someone is above or below 200, even if the exact number is not seen. That's just because I like to give my rep to those who are under 200, since once you're over 200 it's all icing on the cake anyway.

  8. #82
    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421
    I disagree. I'm far from a grammar Nazi, but it takes a fraction of a second to type and spell properly, and displays respect for everyone who reads what you've posted. People should be encouraged to write in proper English, and the rep system seems to be the only method of doing so.

    The last thing we need is people posting in text-speak.
    Oh c'mon. I know text speak isn't exactly fun to read, but if its just someone typing ne1 or any1 at one point in a paragraph, as opposed to say a whole message like:

    Ey3 h8 4d4/\/\ |>uN/\/, h3 K's 2 mU<h!&$%#@*$

    There are better things to neg someone for.

    I also want to say I think a lot of people need to relax about things - and a lot of people need to stop being so sensitive about things. I recently got dinged for "masked profanity" - which I understand is against the rules. But the manner in which it was said was not attacking anyone, and I didn't think it was overly offensive. Just my opinion, but I think Mods should loosen up a bit on the trivial things such as this(and someone else mentioned the word stathead.. is that really taboo? yeesh..), as long as its not a profanity laced tirade.

    I think posters need to stop being so sensitive about words on a screen. Sometimes discussion can get "heated". We all want to be right. No one wants to be wrong. Its okay to make an argument with someone, as long as its conducted civily. No name calling, etc. I've gotten negged by someone for having a differ of opinion - however was able to resolve that by PMing the person who negged me and asking why? We worked it out.

    Sorry to ramble, but a few other things... It does sometimes appear that there is an "in crowd" or a group of elitests. I don't think its really true, but sometimes it does appear that way. I dont think thats how it really is, but I can see why.

    Someone mentioned on here about starting threads to discuss BA, or RISP - and when presented with stats such as OPS, get offended, or feel the thread is hijacked. I just think someone is saying that hey, you shouldn't get so worked up about such and such stat, check into this one, its a better gauge of what you're looking for, and here's why. Not "you're stupid, BA sucks, and OPS rules..".. obviously a bit exagerated, but you get my point.

    Above all, a respect for users new and old. Differing opinions are fine. There are traditionalist and statheads. Its okay to be one or the other. Its okay to be and understand BOTH. Stats are not the only way to evaluate players, and just the same, traditional scouting isn't a full proof method either. Sometimes you get those players who scouts never really like, but they just keep on performing(i.e brian giles). We just need to remember that, respect each other, and stop and take a moment to remember we're all here becuase we love this ball club.

    One last thing, that I just have to air a grievence about - some posters are just overly pessimistic about things - and I think at one time they had reason to be - but there seems to be an atmosphere of habit. Its so ingrained into us things like, Small Market, Low Budget, Carl Lindner, Jim Bowden, Barron Farm System, Dan O'Brien, etc etc - that I think new ownership and GM get some flack they don't deserve, simply becuase we're so used to failure. Its like we can never succeed. Its like just becuase Howington/Gruler/etc failed, that everyone else we draft will as well. Its an aura of even though things have changed, its going to remain the same. I wish people would give this regime a chance - they've only been on the job since what.. Jan/Feb. 1/2 a year. Patience needs to be shown by fans and posters on this board. If they fail, you have a legit gripe. But can you really, honestly, say we are doomed with a 1/2 year of evaluation on the new regime? You can say what you think, but sometimes people convey there thoughts very matter of factly. Hope that makes sense, sorry for the rant.
    "I hate to advocate chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone... But they've always worked for me."

    -Hunter S. Thompson

  9. #83
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Just my 2 cents.... I've been off the board for about two weeks moving home from college and getting internet set up. When I left game threads were stll routinely going into 25-30 pages on RedsLive, and when I came back, the thread was 8 pages long and closed... what happened in the meantime? Did i miss something?

    Its a shame if the thread is going to be permanently moved to ORG, because that thread was the best way for me to follow the game when I was at school, and while i can still read it in the ORG, it is much more fun to be able to participate. But i guess there's always game chat.
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  10. #84
    Member harangatang's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck
    If you want to start a fight, go to a bar where you can actually get punched in the teeth.
    Amen. I love how some people hide behind their computers because they know they can get away with it.

  11. #85
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia
    I now would like say that I think this board is over moderated, is being called a stathead really offensive? Is talking about the Dixie Chicks not wanting certian people to buy their cd political? I really enjoy coming here and reading the posts but am dissappointed that the non-baseball board has become reduced to whats for dinner and who is you favorite band threads. When any good discussion starts the mods come in a close it, its just over done. That being said I like the board and enjoy coming here but I have noticed like everyone else how this board has gone down in quality as of late and I would love to see less moderation.
    I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here, but I kinda agree here. I think the mods do a good job on the whole, and they have a thankless task set in front of them, but lately it does seem like the trigger finger is getting quicker, and threads are closed more out of fear of potentially becoming political, rather than actually being political. Some threads are also closed because the mod who closes it feels that it "no longer serves any purpose here".

    I guess I don't understand the need for Ochre's board. I don't see why we have to go to a seperate site for those discussions when we're all here already. Perhaps a less moderated "rant" forum, as others have suggested, would be a good idea...I dunno.

    I do like the idea about hiding rep points, maybe even hiding post counts.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  12. #86
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    I guess I don't understand the need for Ochre's board. I don't see why we have to go to a seperate site for those discussions when we're all here already. Perhaps a less moderated "rant" forum, as others have suggested, would be a good idea...I dunno.
    That type of stuff bleeds right back to the baseball forum, would lead to more trouble IMO.
    Go Gators!

  13. #87
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    That type of stuff bleeds right back to the baseball forum, would lead to more trouble IMO.
    But it exists anyway, by the same posters, just at a different url. I guess I just don't understand that.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  14. #88
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    Perhaps a less moderated "rant" forum, as others have suggested, would be a good idea...I dunno.
    .
    Good deal.

  15. #89
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I'll weigh in on this...

    I made some of my thoughts clear on the ORG thread along these lines -- namely that everyone from the newbies to the original cast and crew can do a better job of being respectful to one another. Taking an additional second before you post to consider "Am I living the standard I want others to follow?" would solve 95% of the problems on this board. Period.

    As far as the reputation system goes...

    I'm of the opinion that the system is broken, not because we can see one another's totals or anything so banal, but rather because both the incentive for getting positive reputation (the carrot) and the punishment for getting negative reputation (the stick) are too weak.

    Before ORG got it's own game thread, was there really any incetive to having ORG status? Most conversation is in Live, the majority of the activity is in Live, the majority of the posters go to Live first. Similarly, what's the stick for getting negative reputation? Mods have said it before -- nobody really gets banned for having low rep. You have to ask -- what is the reptutation system trying to do? Is it still currently serving that purpose? I'd argue that, because this debate is occuring agian (a year later), it hasn't achieved it's long-term goal of continued viability. Theoretically, the reputation system should preclude this conversation from even needing to occur, but it isn't. It kicked the board in the pants a year ago because it was a change -- it lacks the effect a year later.

    I don't have all the answers, and I haven't been around RedsZone nearly as long as most of the others here...but I think the issue that's at the core of all this (and the elephant lurking in the corner of the room) is what kind of board people want -- one that's an open forum for any and all to come and talk about the Reds, or one that's a limited commmunity for the few who are accepted. If you want an open forum, then part of the consequences are that you end up with all sorts of people -- some you may disagree with and some you may not like. It's the nature of the beast.

    Never let it be said, though, that I come to the chalkboard with nothing but an eraser -- so here are my "quick fix" suggestions (not saying ALL should be implemeted, but maybe a few):

    - Switch reputation from the number to the little squares or just hide it alltogether from public view. Once you hit 200, you get an avatar and it's pretty obvious you're in/out of the ORG.

    - Require a set amount of time/reputation before a poster is allowed to create a new thread. One of the O&A messageboards I read does this, and it seems to cut down significantly on the amount of redundancy in threads and confines debate on "beaten to death" subjects to pre-existing threads, which limits the noise on the board and helps funnel discussion. Plus, it allows the posters to get a feel for how the board works before taking the floor and yelling loudly.

    - Limit Game Thread creation to the ORG. This is a carrot/stick issue -- if the game thread is important to people and they enjoy participating in it then that's incentive to follow the rules, make good posts, and recieve reputation sufficient enough to participate in the game threads. And, again, if there's nothing on ORG that people want to participate in that they can't get on Live, what's the point of the reputation system?

    - Day long suspensions for anyone who recieves more than X negative reps on a single post. If someone says something stupid enough to get negged a set number of times, then they really should spend the rest of the day off the board instead of continuing to fight and fan whatever flames are burning on the issue. Another carrot/stick issue for the reputation system.

    I'll conclude by saying I love RedsZone -- I'd never have made it through the last year or two of law school without my daily reading (and, eventually, posting0 on here. I think it's still the best internet message board I've ever been to, and I think the majority of the problems can be fixed not with more rules, but with more common snese.

    With that, we now return to our regular scheduled bickering.
    Championships Matter.
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  16. #90
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRightHander
    When I was new I came in here with a lot of opinions about the game that were not in agreement with many of the people here. Many of my opinions were not very well informed but the older members treated me with a good degree of respect and patiently explained a lot of things. I looked at everything with a fairly open mind and was willing to rethink many of my opinions. When I still found myself in disagreement with someone else, I always found this a good place to discuss those disagreements in a civil manner. This doesn't happen as much now. If folks didn't take disagreements personally and attack back when their ideas are challenged we wouldn't be having so many of these other issues. Everyone needs to calm down a bit and realize that ideas and opinions are up for debate and should not lead to personal attacks.
    Well said, as usual, ORH. Frankly, I'd love to see the following added to the top of the Redszone Rules/Guidelines:

    1. You have the right to have an opinion.
    2. You do not have the right to have an unopposed opinion.

    The folks who make it here long-term at Redszone almost instinctually understand those two truths. Those who don't...well, we've seen the issues.

    I really don't have problems with the rep system, but that's easy for me to say. I try to reward good content when I'm on here, but I can see where the system can lead to a degree of jealosy or complaints about a "caste system." I don't know if hiding rep scores would solve this problem or not, but I wouldn't have a problem either way. It would still be nice if there was a way to see if someone is above or below 200, even if the exact number is not seen. That's just because I like to give my rep to those who are under 200, since once you're over 200 it's all icing on the cake anyway.
    Also well stated. Excepting some abuse (which is a normal and expected residual), there's nothing wrong with the rep system as it stands, IMHO. I'm with you- if Boss and GIK decide it's best to hide rep point totals, not a big deal. That being said, there's a downside to doing so.

    What most folks don't understand (even some vet posters) is that rep points don't equal reputation, credibility, or privilege. There's no mod out there who's going to bow down to posters with high rep points. The very idea of that is lunacy considering that just about every one of them has told a high rep poster (myself included) to shut up when shutting up was the best course of action. There's no high rep poster out there who hasn't had major disagreements with another high rep poster. There's no special caste. There are no major cliques. There is no "Redszone 10" unless "ten" equals "two hundred and fifty". The remainder of my post is going to be directed to anyone within reading distance, so my apologies for breaking off my response to you, ORH.

    Every single person who has ever complained about not having enough reputation points doesn't understand the simplicity of the concept:

    Reputation equals appreciation. Nothing more.

    Type posts that folks appreciate and reputation points are earned. Quickly. And that runs into the point I probably should have made a couple paragraphs ago- hiding rep point totals does nothing to help posters who want to search for posts created by those with high rep point totals so that they may determine exactly what kind of information is valued.

    Now, I dunno about anyone else but if it's me and I'm looking to try out a new message board that uses something akin to a reputation system, I'm probably going to do my homework before my first post and figure out the what kind of posts are appreciated versus the opposite by looking at contributions by the highest rep total posters on the board. So let's take a look at those guys in no particular order:

    westofyou
    Cyclone792
    M2
    SteelSD
    Caveat Emperor
    RFS62

    Now, do any of those guys have major reputation point totals because they're just popular? No (and please note that I only listed posters off the top of my head). The tie that binds those names- while they may disagree with each other often- is that every one of those posters has the ability to think three dimensionally, understand situational dynamics, and when challenged they have the ability to produce well thought out factually-based counterpoints even though every one has the ability to also be "chippy" at times (my own snide cuss self included).

    The lesson is that if you see the game as an emotional AB-by-AB sprint instead of a marathon and don't have the ability to look past what's right in front of you, that may not be the best plan. If you harbor resentment against a certain type of player or game without factual basis, this may not be the best forum for you. If your plan is to attack posters rather than concepts, this isn't the place you should be. If your M.O. is to emotionally escalate a debate, there are folks here who are better at that game than you. If you feel you have a right to have an opinion but can't handle a challenge to it, go elsewhere. Please. If you want rep points for effort rather than contribution, you won't get them unless said effort results in you making an actual point. There isn't a poster on this board who is immune to being wrong. That being said, there isn't a poster on this board who has the right to be right just because he thinks so.

    But if you want to talk about baseball at an exceptionally high level and if you might be willing to shut up, listen, and learn about that which you don't know or you want to provide information above and beyond the general knowledge level of the forum then this IS the place for you.

    I type the above not because I represent Redszone (I don't, of course) but because it is the Truth of any intellectual forum and in an intellectual forum that which demonstrates an understanding of fact and three-dimensional thinking rule.

    And at this point, I've never seen an organization more in need of a mission statement than Redszone. The lack of one is what reduced SOSH to private membership.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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