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Thread: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

  1. #106
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flyer85
    How bout separate forums for optimists and pessimists.


    How about adding a bi-polar forum too.

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  3. #107
    Who Dey!! GridironGrace's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Have only made it to like page 4 of this thread so far........

    I agree with the problem of New members making threads that have already been covered. And love the idea of a "Beaten to death Thread"

    I dont like hiding the Rep points. If they are gonna be a part of the forums they need to be KNOWN. Not fair to have them without knowing whats going on IMO. Atleast you should be able to see your Rep when posting.. Dont see a need in seein OTHER peoples rep.


    My own Ideas:

    A Newbie Welcoming Section. A place where they can see all the rules, then post that they are HERE, and we can all go in and say thank you for joining... give some words of incouragement and WELCOME them properly.

    Not to mention they could ask questions in thier thread on whats right and wrong, or if they wanna start a thread they could ask if its been covered 1000 times already or not.

    Just a newbie Forum where the older members could help newbies learn thier way around here... possibly have an adoption program of some sort where the older memebers could take on one or 2 newbies who can PM them and get answers to questions they have about the board.

    Thats about all i got right now til I read the rest of the pages..
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  4. #108
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by GridironGrace
    Just a newbie Forum where the older members could help newbies learn thier way around here... possibly have an adoption program of some sort where the older memebers could take on one or 2 newbies who can PM them and get answers to questions they have about the board.

    Only way I want to be involved with a mentor program is if the newbie has to come over and wash my car.

    Sorry, I guess I'm extra snarky today.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #109
    Who Dey!! GridironGrace's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    Only way I want to be involved with a mentor program is if the newbie has to come over and wash my car.

    Sorry, I guess I'm extra snarky today.
    LOL I just hope your being sarcastic. Ive not been around here no where near as long as alot of you, however, im not a newbie anymore lol.

    I just feel you can eliminate alot of the problems as soon as someone gets here with a mentor program. The more veteran members that would help out the better, this way you teach before they make a mistake, intead of having to explain to them in the 1000th Dunn ks alot thread.
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  6. #110
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by GridironGrace
    LOL I just hope your being sarcastic. Ive not been around here no where near as long as alot of you, however, im not a newbie anymore lol.

    I just feel you can eliminate alot of the problems as soon as someone gets here with a mentor program. The more veteran members that would help out the better, this way you teach before they make a mistake, intead of having to explain to them in the 1000th Dunn ks alot thread.
    The option for them to do it is already there. I had two posters pm me when they first joined the board asking me questions, and I was very willing to help them out. I'd say that now, both of them are better at the quality of posts they have here now than I am. I'm not taking credit for that, just saying that if new posters have questions, they are always capable of pming longtime posters and picking their brains.
    This is the Cal Ripkin Jr. of typos.

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  7. #111
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Not to mention they could ask questions in thier thread on whats right and wrong, or if they wanna start a thread they could ask if its been covered 1000 times already or not.
    I don't want to sound whiny, but I've posted several questions in different threads, on different topics, and they've mostly been ignored. I posted in the game thread for a clarification between posting in the thread vs. in the chat room. Again, it was ignored. I don't mind all these ideas but everybody has to live up to their end of the bargin for it to work.

    I've rethought my position on the rep. I think I'd like to continue to see it posted. SteelSD said it well in his post for the reasoning. I think the key to the system, however, is that all participate. This includes negitive reps. If people are dilligent about handing out good rep for what they think are good posts then "newbies" will quickly figure out the types of posts appreicated on the site. This means, however, that all the vets have to do it so that their is an equal distribution of opinions on what qualifies as "a good post".

    Equally important, is the handing out of negative reps for VALID reasons. If vets are equally dilligent about handing out negative reps when people are attacking, refuse to listen, unduly negitive, etc etc they too will quickly figure out the sorts of posts not appriciated on the site. Again, the vets have to be dilligent about handing out the neg reps so that people aren't ganged up on and a uniform sense of what a "bad post" can be gained.

    The whole idea of the rep system, as I understand it, is that it is a "self monitoring" system. Well, if vets only occasionally hand out reps, good or bad, then how can it work? From my side, we "newbies" need to be open to the feedback we reiceve, wether it be in thread, via reps, or PM's. Just because a vet asks us to conisder another option doesn't mean we should gear up for war.

    I reciently abandoned the cincinnati.com forum. It is up and running and let me tell you, it is HORRIBLE. We should all be greatfull for this site and the effort that goes into it. The other site is nothing but name calling, recitation of XYZ player sucks (of course, with no evidence other than a recient bad outing or play), goofy posts that only list obsucre player names, and a few posters who bully the others and refuse to hear anybody elses ideas (unless it agrees with their "the Reds are a blight on humainty" retoric).
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  8. #112
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    To address some of the issues of this thread:

    --Seperate boards: I was against this when it was proposed and I'm still opposed. I think everyone should be allowed to post freely and segregating people only leads to resentment or a 'kiss-butt' attitude designed to get 'called-up' (which is a totally silly concept).

    --Mods: sorry but, personally, I don't think the mods on this board do a particullarly good job. There are certain mods on this board that abuse and break the rules consistantly but are never disciplined for it. They come to think of themselves as 'bullet-proof' and get even more out of line with their responsibilities. Someone else suggested that there be term-limits on their authority and I would certainly support that.

    --Rep system: I didn't like it when it was proposed and I still don't like it. I feared it would lead to abuse by certain groups and, IMO, it has. It should be eliminated all together.

    --Game thread: I was hopeful that creating a game thread in ORG would lead to a thread that would be primarily comments about the action on the field. While it has gotten better, it still contains too many inane, frivioulous comments. It's still treated like a chat room so my suggestion is this: it's treated like a chat room so move it to the chat room and make it available there and only there. Let the use fit the location.

    --Stats vs. Opinion: By nature of the medium, stats seem more viable when posted on the internet because they are posted in 'black and white' and are finite. Opinion, OTOH, is more fluid and not easily expressed in finite terms. We've seen things like, 'I like his range to his left but not his right' being disputed by someone quoteing a stat to back up his opposition to the statement. Frankly, the opinion may be more correct, or they may actually both be in agreement and simply expressing the same viewpoint in different manners but black and white numbers, in this medium, will always seem more creditable (even if they are not). Some people trust their observation and some people trust the numbers. Their opinions, based upon the tool(s) they use are not necessarilly different. However, because stats appear in a very finite, definitive form there is a bias by some and they tend to dismiss observation as not being valid. When somone says 'back it up with numbers' they haughtily dismiss someones observation as not being valid simply because they use a different tool to form an opinion.

    Rem

  9. #113
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    I'd say that now, both of them are better at the quality of posts they have here now than I am.
    Thats like saying Pam Anderson is a hotter girl after the breast implants. In other words, who isn't a better quality poster than you, Sava.

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  10. #114
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I apologize for the length of this post, but I’ve read through this entire thread, and like to weigh in with a few thoughts.

    As one of the “old timers” around here, I remember what RedsZone used to be like and what it is now. In the beginning, RedsZone was like a neighborhood bar where “everybody knew your name.” Even during game threads, we’d follow the game, and because we didn’t want to switch to the non-baseball forum during the game, we’d catch up on family stuff and even toss in some current affairs/political stuff. There were just a few of us and game threads would only be 8-10 pages.

    And if a Reds hitter struck out, we ragged on him simply because the pitcher made him look foolish. At least, if the hitter made contact, he didn’t look so incompetent. We didn’t know too much about OBP and OBS. We figured that since BA and RBI were good enough for the backs of the baseball cards we grew up with, then they were good enough for us, too. And WHIP was either something my dad did to me because I sassed him, or something you bought at your local ice cream stand. We were just Reds fans who got together and became friends because of our love for the Reds. We had folks who would be privy to “inside scoops” and we’d share Reds news and discuss Jim Bowden’s latest antics.

    And, I might add, the team was worse then than now, but somehow we managed to express our “frustration” with the team, front office, etc. without ticking off everyone else in the forum. And if we disagreed, no one felt the need to “convince” everyone to our way of thinking. No one needed to feel like they needed to be an expert in the art of debate techniques, before they felt free to express their opinion. Most of us did not join RedsZone because we enjoyed debate. We just wanted someplace to hang out with friends who were Reds fans, and get away from strife and turmoil that most of us face everyday with our lives.

    But RedsZone is no longer the quiet neighborhood bar. It has grown and nobody even cares about your name. It’s a shame, but some of those friends who used to frequent here are long gone. I don’t know if they are on other boards or have snuck back in under new screen names or what. And I must say that I have been tempted to follow them.

    I don’t know that RedsZone can be “fixed” to every one’s satisfaction.

    The reputation point system has really not solved anything. It was a good attempt by those in charge, but it is far too subjective to really do any good. I communicated with one poster a couple months after the rep system started. He told me that someone had given him five positive rep points for a comment he made, and someone else gave him five negative rep points for the same exact comment. Let’s face it, regardless of what the rules are for giving rep points, ultimately, if you agree with somebody, you’re going to give them positive rep points, and if you disagree, you’re going to give negative rep points.

    We old-timers need to understand that it will never go back to the way it used to be. We can adapt and learn. I have found out what OBP and OBS means. And I discovered that WHIP doesn’t actually involve my dad’s belt. As long as the Batting Average fans can keep their BA without being criticized, and the OBP fans can keep their OBP without being criticized, RedsZone will remain the premier choice of Reds fans everywhere.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  11. #115
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I vote for Raisor's Thunderdome idea.

  12. #116
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    Only way I want to be involved with a mentor program is if the newbie has to come over and wash my car.

    Sorry, I guess I'm extra snarky today.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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  13. #117
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    I think we should just change the name of Redszone to MollycoddleZone and blow sunshine up each others backsides like we were Chip N' Dale. Then when anyone was a big meanie everyone could report your bad bad posts to the mods or better yet start another thread whining about it.
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  14. #118
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51
    Many times things aren't proven wrong and the fight goes on. For example someone saying that Rich Aurilia is a better 1B than Hatteberg. Someone might feel very strong about Hatteberg, then a rebuttle is that Aurilia has more range. Hatte picks better though, Aurilia positions himself better....these types of things can't be proved. Even some stats that are used in hitting situations and stuff still create arguments.

    If all opinions could be solved, they wouldnt be opinions, they would be facts, or wrong.
    My take is that far more often it's someone using the word "opinion" as a shield against the facts that have been presented to them. Numerous times in the past week I've run into posters making claims that are simply contrary to some rather basic evidence and instead of using that evidence to alter their opinion they've griped that they should be allowed to have an opinion without having numbers thrown at them. Sorry, but (and this is a made-up example) if you want to claim the Reds are the best triples hitting team in history and there's a quick and easy numerical test that proves you wrong, then it's for you to recognize that they keep score in baseball and that your perception doesn't trump what's actually happened.

    This gets back to some of the topics that might be fodder for "beaten to death" forum. For instance, we've been through an incredibly tedious discussion over the years about whether the Reds strike out too much to have a good offense. As it turned out, they were able to lead the league in scoring while also leading it in Ks (just like BRM). It also turned out the team had one of the more consistent offenses in baseball. Now that doesn't mean there aren't things the team could do in order to score more, but it does mean that as board we've seen these arguments tested and a definitive answer has been given -- as long as you get on base and hit for power, whiffing like crazy won't prevent you from scoring gobs of runs. We KNOW this. It's no longer needs to be a matter for opinion on this board and having to give equal weight and credit to the opinions of the folks who haven't learned it shatters the boundaries of common sense.

    I mentioned this in another thread and I'll repeat it here. We've covered a lot of ground in six years. In general it shouldn't be the job of the board to repeat itself for newer posters, it should be the job of the newer posters to catch up to where the board has progressed to. There's almost an endless supply of topics out there and we don't need to keep running over the same ones or spinning our wheels because someone doesn't understand when they've formed a half-baked opinion.

    Speaking of wheels:

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    Every time the older posters get fed up with the junk that's floating around and start getting vocal about it, the newer posters start making a push to enact change even though they've essentially just joined the board.
    Amen.
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  15. #119
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21

    I don’t know that RedsZone can be “fixed” to every one’s satisfaction.
    Truer words were never written on this board.

    My recommendation: folks need to get thicker skin. And use the ignore feature.

  16. #120
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    Re: Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

    A "newbie" gives his 2 cents:

    As a "newbie," I felt obligated to read and respond to this topic. Especially since I'm probobly one of the newbies some of the vets are complaining about. I apologize for any newbie mistakes I may have made or will make, but I do want to sound off from my perspective on a few of the issues raised in this topic.

    The Reds Live portion of this site is an open forum. You get what you get. Some good, some not so good. If you don't want to read or respond to any of it, don't. Fairly simple I think.

    I've enjoyed all of the discussions that I have had with "veteran" members of this board, even ones where my opinion has been discounted. I expected that. It happens everywhere, not just the world of the internet. People disagree. No harm, no foul.

    Repeated topics are also inevitable. For example: until Adam Dunn hits .600 (.999 with RISP) with no strikeouts, people are going to complain. I realize it causes excess "noise," but as I stated before, you can choose what you read and respond to.

    No forum of this nature will be perfect. I think this one is pretty darn good and I'm glad I found it.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.


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