Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

[KronoRed]

I'm sure a ten game Reds win streak would help smooth things over.

I dunno, we won on Sunday when the trouble started

[KronoRed]

A totally unmoderated board would be a disaster IMO, how many times would we have to say "Yeah well **** you" before it got old?

[TeamCasey]

A totally unmoderated board would be a disaster IMO, how many times would we have to say "Yeah well **** you" before it got old?

I'm going to neg you for masked profanity.

[Puffy]

Mike, I don't really think there is a problem with people discussing deeper issues like the ones you mentioned. If anything this board welcomes that as much as any place on the Internet.

Where people tend to hit loggerheads is when a poster says X, gets shown evidence that X simply isn't true and then gets in a snit about it. Intelligent other interpretations of the evidence pretty much always get consideration around here. Finding a different logical home for that evidence also rarely turns into much of a conflagration on this board.

Yet sometimes you've just got an empty premise and those may be opinions, but they certainly aren't valid opinions.

One of the things I've come to respect about you over the years is your willingness to think about the things you think. You always make a strong case for your opinions and you don't change them lightly, but you also don't hold onto to them blindly. And, to a degree, a lot of what I'm seeing from the "I've got an opinion" argument is really a case for "Hey, I don't really want to have to think about this stuff."

Well, it's Redszone and, as you know, that's never going to fly very far

Thats a beautiful post. That is the problem - anyone who comes here with an open mind never has the "condesending tone" problem. If you are willing to openly debate, think, and have your opinions challenge while challenging back you will immediately be respected. Its that simple. Guys like myself, Stormy and RFS are not true Statheads and we agree with the so called statheads 95% of the time, and where we have disagreed its never been a challenge and there was never any namecalling (except between me and RFS - but thats because he is an old, old, old, old, old, old, old codger) because of presentation and articulation.

As Steel said, this is an "A" board and you can disagree all you want, but bring your "A" game and you'll be fine.

Of course, all my opinion - hopefully I don't get yelled at again for this post, especially cause I stated I wouldn't say anything else.

[Tommyjohn25]

A totally unmoderated board would be a disaster IMO, how many times would we have to say "Yeah well **** you" before it got old?

Why would saying "love you" get old? There is never too much love to go around! :

[KronoRed]

I'm going to neg you for masked profanity.

Tattle tale!!

[M2]

Guys like myself, Stormy and RFS are not true Statheads and we agree with the so called statheads 95% of the time, and where we have disagreed its never been a challenge ...

Good point. Wish Stormy would come back, because I've never known anyone who can predict what's going to happen next in a ballgame like Stormy. He was a freak of nature with that.

Also, it's fairly comedic who gets labelled a stathead. I probably do by lots of folks. I haven't taken a math course since I graduated high school 21 years ago. I make my living off the written word. If I'm what goes for a stathead/mathlete in these parts then that's just sad. It would be like calling me a professional mountain climber because sometimes I go on hikes with the family.

[paintmered]

To the Mods:

If you really want to air this problem out and you really want people's opinions then this thread has to be a rep-free, warning-free zone. Let people make their feelings known without fear of reprisal. Otherwise you're just giving lip-service to the problem.

Rem

The ability to give rep is a user-group based option. Therefore, we do not have the ability (without some hack I don't know about) to make it thread-based. Also, to the best of my knowledge, nobody has been warned in this thread and everyone has been free to air their grievances without fear of reprisal. If you are referring to WOY's comment, that was not due to anything said in this thread.

[Puffy]

Good point. Wish Stormy would come back, because I've never known anyone who can predict what's going to happen next in a ballgame like Stormy. He was a freak of nature with that.

Also, it's fairly comedic who gets labelled a stathead. I probably do by lots of folks. I haven't taken a math course since I graduated high school 21 years ago. I make my living off the written word. If I'm what goes for a stathead/mathlete in these parts then that's just sad. It would be like calling me a professional mountain climber because sometimes I go on hikes with the family.

Yeah, sorry bout that - statheads should be in quotes b/c I don't mean to label people.

[M2]

Yeah, sorry bout that - statheads should be in quotes b/c I don't mean to label people.

That's fine, I didn't read it as you labelling anyone. I just get a kick out of the whole "stathead" concept because I doubt many of the supposed statheads on the site conform to the stereotype ... or even qualify as statheads.

[guttle11]

Good point. Wish Stormy would come back, because I've never known anyone who can predict what's going to happen next in a ballgame like Stormy. He was a freak of nature with that.

Also, it's fairly comedic who gets labelled a stathead. I probably do by lots of folks. I haven't taken a math course since I graduated high school 21 years ago. I make my living off the written word. If I'm what goes for a stathead/mathlete in these parts then that's just sad. It would be like calling me a professional mountain climber because sometimes I go on hikes with the family.

A "stathead" is someone who only uses stats and has absolutely no opinion whatsoever. To be honest, I see none of that around here.

The only problem with the people labeled "statheads" around here is their blatant lack of respect for others' opinions that don't use stats.

To me, there are ways to state opinion and have it be valid without providing numerous stats that can be twisted and worked in a certain way to make anyone look better.

[Spitball]

Where people tend to hit loggerheads is when a poster says X, gets shown evidence that X simply isn't true and then gets in a snit about it.

To me, this is a big, big problem, but not for the reason stated in this quote. This attitude is the root of much of what bothers so many of us. Because one poster buys a statistical explanation doesn't mean it proves a thing to the other poster. Sometimes that evidence is clear to one poster but is not clear to the other. Statistics are not the total answer for some of us. You might cross a river that averages a depth of three feet, but I'm not going to do it. Even if you get across, that doesn't prove I will.

As I see it, the problem is when one doesn't see the "evidence". Who gets into the snit? One is a statistical guy and he wants a statistical response from the guy who isn't inclined that way. Who is the bad guy? Probably neither, maybe there just has to be tolerance from both kinds of posters.

The statistics that some believe prove something don't prove a thing to others. I won't get into the strikeout thing, but the "clear-cut evidence" isn't clear-cut to some of us. I really don't appreciate someone throwing a number at me and saying that proves your wrong now go away until you come up with a staistic. I left the board last summer when I was called a 98 pound weakling and a girl by a poster simply because I had no desire to make an in depth statistical analysis to prove a comment, that was actually a side to my point.

[saboforthird]

A "stathead" is someone who only uses stats and has absolutely no opinion whatsoever. To be honest, I see none of that around here.

The only problem with the people labeled "statheads" around here is their blatant lack of respect for others' opinions that don't use stats.

Not too long ago I gave my opinion that Dunn isn't a great defender and that he could improve on his defense. I was then told my opinion would mean nothing unless I came up with a stat that showed how many runs he "costs" the Reds on defense.

The only problem was that I never said anything of the like. I simply said he could use some improvement. The ego from that poster is really what set me off for a while and made me contemplate leaving Redszone. He twisted every word I said and put me into a crows that I wasn't in.(Anti-Dunn).

To me, there are ways to state opinion and have it be valid without providing numerous stats that can be twisted and worked in a certain way to make anyone look better.

And, I bet $1,000,000 I know who that poster was. Doesn't matter, but it illustrates a point: this site *does* have "statheads" who don't care for opinions without appending numbers. I almost think this RZ needs to be split into separate "Community of Reds Fans" and "Nerds with Beer" forums. I am very much of the abstract type and know that there many things in this world that don't need "numbers" to support the obvious, but I find it incredibly difficult to post anything here with fear of reprisal from those who think otherwise.

[pedro]

And, I bet $1,000,000 I know who that poster was. Doesn't matter, but it illustrates a point: this site *does* have "statheads" who don't care for opinions without appending numbers. I almost think this RZ needs to be split into separate "Community of Reds Fans" and "Nerds with Beer" forums. I am very much of the abstract type and know that there many things in this world that don't need "numbers" to support the obvious, but I find it incredibly difficult to post anything here with fear of reprisal from those who think otherwise.

With classy posts like that I wonder why.

[REDREAD]

Just one thought.. Why do people want to hide rep points?

The arguement I see is that some people are getting "promoted" to ORG that don't deserve it. If that's the case, why not just lock down ORG to new members or have some kind of election to get in (as opposed to the rep system)?

I guess I'm saying that if rep points need to be hidden, then the rep system is broken.

Also, I figure that if the points are hidden, there's going to be more begging/discussion about the points.

One point I'd like to add: If there's a poster that consistently annoys you or beats a topic to death, the board does have an ignore feature. It's a great way to customize the board exactly as you like it

I do agree that people could be more civil and friendly towards each other. We're all pulling for the same team.