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Thread: EZ is getting me excited!

  1. #1
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    EZ is getting me excited!

    Lizard has been on a roll lately, and I wonder if he could be a key component in this team contending. With Harang and Arroyo pitching well already, EZ could get us a top three that would be a force to reckon with. He's a young guy who is getting better, and he is learning how to pitch in the big leagues.

    Today he pitched great against two guys who have been killing the ball this decade. After striking him out once, Elizardo faced Berkman again in the 6th he and fouled off about 5 pitches in a row. Elizardo didn't let up though, made some great pitches, and finally got Berkman to fly out. The next batter(Morgan Ensberg), Elizardo went down 3-0, and instead of walking him (like many other pitchers would rather do after he already hit a home run off of them earlier in the game), Lizard came right at him and popped him up on a 3-1 pitch.

    Lizard showed some great composure on the mound, and if he continues to pitch like this, then this team has a great future, even this year. Now all that needs to happen is we need to dump LaRue and some minor leaguer(s) for a BP arm.
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  3. #2
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    EZ has been impressive this year, especially since he is only 23. Doesn't have awe inspiring stuff, but it seems like he "knows' how to pitch. At 23, that is a good thing. He has a 3.95 ERA, and you can't ask for a whole lot more out of a rookie.

    It would be nice if we helped him out though. We don't score when he pitches, and today Weather blew one for him.
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  4. #3
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    I think he has been taking lessons from Bronson. With flipping those breaking balls up there.

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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    I agree with all of the above posts. He stuff sort of reminds you of Bronson. He is a smart pitcher who seems to be a good student of the game. What about faking that bunt at the plate trying to draw the third baseman in? How many pitchers would think of doing that?

    I'm really excited about what he can bring to this team. I don't have any thoughts of him ever being a Cy Young winner, but he can be a nice #3 starter for years to come.

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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    I heard Marty say that he hit 93 on the gun today in his last inning of pitching so that's throwing pretty hard. He's been a fighter. I like him too.

  7. #6
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    In my mind, EZ has leap frogged over Claussen in the "pecking order" of the starting rotation. As someone commented earlier, he doesn't have awe inspiring stuff, but he has been very consistent at giving the team 6-7 innings of 2-3 runs allowed, which for the Reds, keeps them easily within striking distance of the other team offensively. EZ doesn't seem to be afraid to throw any of his pitches and is willing to challenge hitters on a consistent basis. Claussen, on the other hand, appears to have become maddeningly inconsistent and unremarkable on the mound. He seems to be be afraid to really challenge hitters at times and to be content at trying to just finesse his way around batters. Unfortunately for him and the team this has resulted in inflated pitch counts, walks, and hitters counts where he ends up getting burned more often than not.
    (Gulp) I never thought I'd say this, but he's even below Milton in my book. Eric has looked pretty decent since coming off of the DL. Right now, Claussen is no higher than 5th starter in my eyes. I would go so far as to say that he is a guy that I package up in a trade offer to try to obtain a pitching upgrade.
    Better to be silent and thought a fool, than speak and be proven one.

  8. #7
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    I think this thread title is a little racy...

  9. #8
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    OK, I love happy threads too, but this one needs to get checked:

    I saw EZ pitch July 4 2005 at San Fran - what would be his last start of the season. Putrid. In fact, EZ's entire major-league repertoire before 2006 - putrid. But that's not the real problem - any pitcher might take more than a few score of innings to warm to the bigs.

    What worries me about this newfound improvement is that there doesn't seem to be any reason for it. He didn't do anything recently to become more of a 'student of the game' or 'smart pitcher' - his stuff is the same, his mental game is likely still the same. Obviously his personal makeup - confidence & such, especially at the age of 23 - are different. Griffeyfreak4 mentions that in this thread's original post, and to his credit he properly pinpoints the source of EZ's new successes.

    But the bottom line is - do you guys trust a pitcher's newfound mental makeup to endure when he still
    - has average stuff
    - is at the impressionable age of 23
    - is part of an organization not particularly known for its pitching intelligence
    - and ispitching in what is known as a hitter's park?

    [Aside: If the staff had any hand in giving EZ this confidence, they should try the same thing with Claussen...]

    I sure don't, and that's why all this talk of EZ as a real #3 starter is hogwash. At this point he's a serviceable 5th, maybe a 4th. If he proves his confidence is really a part of his game-plan, we'll know it soon enough, especially if the pressure is still on in August.

    Sorry for flushing the toilet in the middle of your hot showers boys, but as much as I hate to say it I think EZ is going to be on an even colder spell pretty soon...

    The art of losing isn't hard to master.


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  10. #9
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44
    I think this thread title is a little racy...
    Thats what i was thinking too.

  11. #10
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keystone12
    OK, I love happy threads too, but this one needs to get checked:

    I saw EZ pitch July 4 2005 at San Fran - what would be his last start of the season. Putrid. In fact, EZ's entire major-league repertoire before 2006 - putrid. But that's not the real problem - any pitcher might take more than a few score of innings to warm to the bigs.

    What worries me about this newfound improvement is that there doesn't seem to be any reason for it. He didn't do anything recently to become more of a 'student of the game' or 'smart pitcher' - his stuff is the same, his mental game is likely still the same. Obviously his personal makeup - confidence & such, especially at the age of 23 - are different. Griffeyfreak4 mentions that in this thread's original post, and to his credit he properly pinpoints the source of EZ's new successes.

    But the bottom line is - do you guys trust a pitcher's newfound mental makeup to endure when he still
    - has average stuff
    - is at the impressionable age of 23
    - is part of an organization not particularly known for its pitching intelligence
    - and ispitching in what is known as a hitter's park?

    [Aside: If the staff had any hand in giving EZ this confidence, they should try the same thing with Claussen...]

    I sure don't, and that's why all this talk of EZ as a real #3 starter is hogwash. At this point he's a serviceable 5th, maybe a 4th. If he proves his confidence is really a part of his game-plan, we'll know it soon enough, especially if the pressure is still on in August.

    Sorry for flushing the toilet in the middle of your hot showers boys, but as much as I hate to say it I think EZ is going to be on an even colder spell pretty soon...
    I think Elizardo had pitched 22 innings before this year. How could you make such assumptions?

    I'm not sold on Elizardo as a consistent, productive pitcher. But I sure wouldn't look at 22 innings and assume that Elizardo is toast because of it.

    He has very solid minor league numbers so it's not 100% that he's just getting lucky right now. He's gotten hitters out at all levels.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  12. #11
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I think Elizardo had pitched 22 innings before this year. How could you make such assumptions?

    I'm not sold on Elizardo as a consistent, productive pitcher. But I sure wouldn't look at 22 innings and assume that Elizardo is toast because of it.

    He has very solid minor league numbers so it's not 100% that he's just getting lucky right now. He's gotten hitters out at all levels.
    Yeah 22 innings at the ripe old age of 22. Hard to make assumption on that.

    Also he and Soto worked on his change-up which may have improved him. I really doubt Elizardo is 'lucking' his way into being smart. Guys like EE, Javy, and Felipe are helping him stay calm and cool also. Javy has been like a dad to EZ this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  13. #12
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keystone12
    But the bottom line is - do you guys trust a pitcher's newfound mental makeup to endure when he still
    - has average stuff
    - is at the impressionable age of 23
    - is part of an organization not particularly known for its pitching intelligence
    - and ispitching in what is known as a hitter's park?

    [Aside: If the staff had any hand in giving EZ this confidence, they should try the same thing with Claussen...]
    In my opinion, Arroyo has "average stuff," but he makes up for that by being a smart pitcher and working with what he has. He seems to do just fine in GABP. What stands out with EZ when compared to most pitchers his age is that he is a smart pitcher. You won't find many his age with his poise and the willingness to challenge major league hitters.

    The difference between EZ and Claussen is night and day. Claussen has great stuff but in my opinion does not have the mentality and pitches soft, and I don't think he is nearly as coachable as EZ is. I think Claussen will struggle being a great pitcher because of his mental approach and it's too bad because he has a great arm.

  14. #13
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    The problem with Elizardo Ramirez is that he still doesn't have the ability to do something with a batter when he gets ahead in the count. His minor league peripherals bear that out, to a large extent:

    Code:
    H9	HR9	BB9	K9	WHIP
    9.33	0.58	1.39	6.61	1.19
    Note his K/9 ratio at 6.61 and his WHIP of 1.19. His K/9 this season in roughly 50 innings of work has been in the 6 range. Even though his BABIP this season has been in the .280 range, the low peripherals indicates that he's a pitcher that relies heavily on his defense as opposed to any great stuff.

    Further, Liz's DIPS EAR (Defense-Independant ERA) is 4.72, indicating that he's leading something of a charmed life when it comes to getting good defense behind him on days that he pitches.

    All this leads me to my conclusion that it's too early to excited about Elizardo Ramirez. He is only 23, and he's yet to even come close to his "prime years" as a major leaguer. He's got a lot of work to do and needs to get better at expanding the zone with 2 strikes in order to generate more swings and misses. He looks better this year than he did last year, so I'm going to go ahead and, for the time being, at least go into "wait and see" mode.
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  15. #14
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    The problem with Elizardo Ramirez is that he still doesn't have the ability to do something with a batter when he gets ahead in the count. His minor league peripherals bear that out, to a large extent:

    Code:
    H9	HR9	BB9	K9	WHIP
    9.33	0.58	1.39	6.61	1.19
    Note his K/9 ratio at 6.61 and his WHIP of 1.19. His K/9 this season in roughly 50 innings of work has been in the 6 range. Even though his BABIP this season has been in the .280 range, the low peripherals indicates that he's a pitcher that relies heavily on his defense as opposed to any great stuff.

    Further, Liz's DIPS EAR (Defense-Independant ERA) is 4.72, indicating that he's leading something of a charmed life when it comes to getting good defense behind him on days that he pitches.

    All this leads me to my conclusion that it's too early to excited about Elizardo Ramirez. He is only 23, and he's yet to even come close to his "prime years" as a major leaguer. He's got a lot of work to do and needs to get better at expanding the zone with 2 strikes in order to generate more swings and misses. He looks better this year than he did last year, so I'm going to go ahead and, for the time being, at least go into "wait and see" mode.
    And you'd be right on that. Ramirez' BABIP (.296) coming into tonight is in line with MLB average, but his OPSA is .861 with a .500 SLG Against. His DIPS numbers are pretty accurate and when you're posting near league-average BABIP while producing a 6.00+/9 IP K rate, that's an issue. Even though that K rate is respectable and in line with his minor league numbers (6.61 K/9 IP), Ramirez' Hit/9 IP rate has always been high. That tells me I'm looking at a low IP "feel" pitcher who's going to tax a bullpen and a pitcher who doesn't have a MLB-quality "Out" pitch.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  16. #15
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    Re: EZ is getting me excited!

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    And you'd be right on that. Ramirez' BABIP (.296) coming into tonight is in line with MLB average, but his OPSA is .861 with a .500 SLG Against. His DIPS numbers are pretty accurate and when you're posting near league-average BABIP while producing a 6.00+/9 IP K rate, that's an issue. Even though that K rate is respectable and in line with his minor league numbers (6.61 K/9 IP), Ramirez' Hit/9 IP rate has always been high. That tells me I'm looking at a low IP "feel" pitcher who's going to tax a bullpen and a pitcher who doesn't have a MLB-quality "Out" pitch.
    But if he is considered no better than a 4 or a 5, then this ain't bad.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.


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