Did you see Rose prior to 1970?Originally Posted by osuceltic
Because essentially that's where the argument dies with me, because if you are talking Pete Rose career wise it is unfair.
Kinda like you coming into the thread and telling everyone how stupid they are.
Check out Cyclone's post #72 on this thread. I think it's as fair an analysis as one could make.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
I did, and it was.
That said Pete Rose to everyone is not 26 year old Pete Rose in 1967.
If you want to compare guys who just turned 26 then that's as far as you can go IMO, otherwise you're comparing a legend to a 26 year old slugger with 2000 PA's and that's totally askew.
I'm not trying to be snippy...
But a minute ago it was 1970... now it's 1967. I'm confused.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
Because I thought he was 26 in 1970
Which he wasn't
OK... I follow now.
I still follow the argument that 9 Peter Edwards would beat 9 Adam Troys. And there ain't no stats gonna back me up. Sorry for that.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
The point I got from Cyclone's post is that they are more comparable than people think. Dunn is that good. If he manages to keep up what he has done so far in his career over 15 years he could be in the same league as Rose. Obviously that's a big if, but DUnn has shown that he has the skill to do so.
Under the age of 26OWP
Offensive Winning Percentage. A Bill James(satan) stat, usually derived from runs created. In EqA terms, it could be calculated as (EQA/refEQA)^5, where refEQA is some reference EQA, such as league average (always .260) or the position-averaged EQA.
Dunn = .647
Rose = .554
Yes, but Dunn would not cut his opponent's guts out and use them to resin his bats like Pete would. Like I said, no stats will support my argument. Except maybe Pete's 3 rings.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
Rings are team dependent... one player can't win a WS all by himself.
"Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn
I'm not saying anyone is stupid. I know you saw Pete play, but I'd be curious how many of the posters arguing for Dunn in this thread actually did. Because I honestly can't understand how anyone who saw them both would make that argument. I just can't. This is a classic case where certain statistics are misleading, because the two aren't in the same league. The only situation I may choose Dunn over Rose for is if I really, really need a home run... And even then, if I really, really need it ... I'm not so sure.
We're talking about a top-25 player all-time. One of the true giants of the game. A guy who won more games than any player in history. I'm honestly not sure Dunn is even in the top-25 of current players.
This isn't a knock on Dunn. It's just terribly unfair to compare him to Rose. George Foster maybe. But not Pete.
I'd say not many.
But Pete wasn't the Pete we know from the 70's when he was as old as Dunn.
I loved Pete as a player a doubles machine, tenacious, smart a damn fine baseball player, a machine...not many players play past age 45 and you can mark down right now that Dunn will be lucky to play past 37. When he's 37 then I'll look at their accomplishments as a whole. But if they were both playing now at age 26 I'd ponder who would have better career batting numbers at the end of their tenure, but I doubt I'd ponder who was a better "baseball player"
Code:AGE >= 45 AT BATS AB 1 Julio Franco 553 2 Cap Anson 424 3 Pete Rose 237 4 Jack Quinn 130 5 Charlie Hough 96 6 Satchel Paige 69 7 Carlton Fisk 53 8 Sam Thompson 31 9 Hoyt Wilhelm 27 10 Hod Lisenbee 19
Fair enough, but we knew who Pete was by the time he reached his sixth season in the majors (hard to believe, but this is Dunn's sixth). And I still say if you judge each at the same point in their careers -- their sixth season -- it's no comparison.
If you want to argue that Dunn will have better a better OPS when he's finished, fine. But that's a different argument.
I think the cause for dispute in comparison is because Rose and Dunn are two different kinds of players.
Dunn is a BB-HR-driven OPS guy while Rose hit for a high average (and admittedly walked a fair amount too) and his slugging was driven by doubles and hustle triples. Not to mention Roses apparent intensity level vs. Dunn's phlegmatic approach. So, from an intuitive level, doing a comparison doesn't seem to make sense.
But comparing them from a RC/27 perspective is pretty creative and merits intelligent discussion.
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
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