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Thread: Shawn Estes

  1. #61
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    "He's still soft and gutless, and the Reds are too far back for this to make any difference."

    Yep.
    That's unfounded opinion based on rumor and hearsay, but you're certainly entitled to think that way if you want.


    The Reds got an effective LH starter without adding payroll, giving up top prospects, or trading away anyone on the ML roster. That's a fantastic deal any way you look at it.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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  3. #62
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: He's going to be a free agent

    Originally posted by cincinnati chili Note: He LOVES to walk batters. Be patient. He'll drive some of you crazy.
    And how, chili. Estes has a Dempster-like career 4.71 BB/9 IP (Dempster: 4.68).

    Still, I'll always take me chances with the southpaw to turn any corner.

  4. #63
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    "The Reds got an effective LH starter without adding payroll, giving up top prospects, or trading away anyone on the ML roster. That's a fantastic deal any way you look at it."

    If you really think the Reds got something for nothing, that's your perogative, but I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you along with some ocean-front property in Arizona.
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  5. #64
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    So what exactly did they give up, guernsey? Two minor leaguers, and 2 PTBNLs, and they didn't take on additional salary.

    If you don't think that's a good deal, I don't know how you could ever be satisfied.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  6. #65
    ShadezNation ramp101's Avatar
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    estes will hurt this team more than he will help it...i think that is what guernsey is saying
    woo woo woo, you know it

  7. #66
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Johnny Footstool
    So what exactly did they give up, guernsey? Two minor leaguers, and 2 PTBNLs, and they didn't take on additional salary.

    If you don't think that's a good deal, I don't know how you could ever be satisfied.

    I think it's much too early to decide if it's a good deal or not. Even if he pitches well, it will depend on who the two players to be named later are.

    PSR

  8. #67
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    "If I can get another starting pitcher tomorrow, we're going to do it tomorrow," Bowden said. "And if I can get another one in two weeks, we're going to do it again."

    Anyone for a 12-man ROTATION?

    FWIW, I'd like to see:

    R Haynes
    L Estes
    R Reitsma
    L Chen
    R Moehler

    with Fernandez outrighted and Dempster optioned to AAA.

  9. #68
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Is everyone forgetting Dessens?

    With decent run support, the guy should have 14-15 wins right now.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  10. #69
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TRF
    Is everyone forgetting Dessens?
    Not at all, TRF. He's our "ace" when he returns from the DL.

  11. #70
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Far East
    I agree with other posters who felt that Piazza should have taken the matter into his own hands when Clemens threw the bat his way in the Series and not have expected Estes who was not even a Met then to have done his dirty work for him later.
    What other posters said this?

    It was a world series game. If he got thrown out for charging the mound, it would have been one of the stupidest errors in judgment in the history of baseball.

  12. #71
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    I'm with Johnny on this. So far this has cost the Reds two minor league players that a majority of Reds fans have never heard of, for a major league left handed pitcher and it cost no more money for this year. Usually those PTBNL are not top flight minor leaguers. Give the guy a chance. Seems like everyone gets down on every player we obtain before the guy even gets in the uniform.

    Juan Encarnacion, he can't hit. Gabe White, he wasn't good when we had him the first time. Russell Branyon, worthless. Bruce Chen, couldn't do it with no one else, can't do it here. Ryan Dempster, can't believe we gave up Juan Encarnacion for him.

    He may not be the Ace you were looking for, but I feel more comfortable with him than Rijo or Hamilton as a starter. I love Rijo, but he is not a starter, even in the minor leagues. It is just too much to ask of him. For the life of me, I don't know why they won't bring Reistma up, but there has to be a reason. This trade, if nothing else, should tell you that they are trying to win. There are no fire sales going on.
    Last edited by CougarQuest; 08-16-2002 at 02:02 AM.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  13. #72
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    I'm not saying the trade is bad; we didn't give up a thing. But as has been echoed on this thread: He takes away starts from Reitsma. And I don't expect a turnaround from a guy who goes from the Lusitania (Mets) to the Titanic (Reds). It's not exactly the change of scenery most players are looking for.

  14. #73
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    I don't know that it does take away starts from Reistma. I thought they were planning on Rijo starting. The way I am looking at it, it takes away a start from Rijo or Hamilton.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  15. #74
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    Feliciano

    I saw someone post about Andujar, but I didn't see anything about Feliciano. So for those interested:

    Feliciano, 25, left handed reliever, 2W - 2L, 4 saves, 2.76 ERA, 48 releif appearances at Louisville & Chattanooga.
    Last edited by CougarQuest; 08-16-2002 at 02:16 AM.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  16. #75
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    Unless JB gets someone like Randy Johnson a lot of you wouldn't be satisfied. Estes costs us a couple of dink minor leaguers, the Mets pay him the rest of the way, he's a lefty with talent, he can go deeper than just about anyone on our staff, his stats are decent - not great but decent enough to be on our staff. Sorry JB couldn't deliver Pedro or Randy or Curt or Bartolo but they aren't available guys. Reitsma is as good as Estes right now? Give me a break. You've been watching a different Reitsma than I have then. In a couple years - maybe even next year, I agree that Chris could be better but right now I'll take Estes on the mound against the Cards. Of course, Bob could get smart, bring up Chris and pitch this rotation at the Cards - Estes, Reitsma, Chen. Unless, of course Elmer is ready. Then I'd go Estes, Reitsma, Dessens with Chen ready to come in if anyone falters.

    Anyway, I'm with Johnny F - good deal for the Reds.

    As for the pennant race, we're still in it but it now depends on how we do with the Cards and Stros. Win both series and its still on. Lose or get swept in either or both and start planning next year's team.


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