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Thread: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

  1. #1
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    When I now go to look at the starting pitching probables for the Reds, I think positive thoughts. I actually think "Oh good, Harang should probably have a good outing" rather than "hopefully he can pitch 6 innings...".

    The pitching has turned around completely from last year. Just look at our ERA Ranking thus far 2006:

    #11 in Major League Baseball: 4.35 ERA

    That's spectacular when you compare it to last years:

    #28 in Major League Baseball: 5.15 ERA.

    That 4.35 might not be amazing, but we are 11th in MLB. Also, with the aquisition of a reliver that could pickup the struggling bullpen, and maybe a solid starter, the ERA should drop even further. Personally, I think a lot of the recent struggles may have had to do with Don Gullett. It seems that ever since he came to the Reds organization the pitching has been mediocre at BEST. It's well known the pitching has extremely struggled since he came to the Reds, and that every player we had "hope" in turned to crap. (See more recently Ryan Dempster, Eric Milton, etc.)

    All I know is with the already established solid offense, we should be a very good team.
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  3. #2
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Broken down a little further.

    Starters ERA: 4.18 (6th in MLB)
    Bullpen ERA: 4.72 (24th in MLB)

    Staff OPSA: .781 (23rd in MLB)

  4. #3
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    While I still feel the key to any sustained success for the reds this year is Claussen, Milton's performance has been spectacular over the last three games.

    But it won't last. I hope Krivsky realizes this. I repeat: it won't last.

    But if the Reds ignore off days, and get the rotation extra rest, perhaps Milton can keep this up for 5-6 more starts. That would put the Reds near the trade deadline. If they are in contention, can the Reds make the kind of move needed to improve on a pitcher that is pitching well but one you know can't last? It's not like his knee is going to get better. You would have to target the teams that think they are still in it. M2 made an excellent list in another thread.

    It would be easier if the Reds had a clear cut prospect ready to make the jump. But Dumatrait has had one start at AAA and hit a bump in the road. Chick is starting to pitch well at AA, but let's not Reith him just yet. Bailey isn't ready. Wood isn't ready. Cueto isn't ready. Pelland isn't ready. I could go on, but you get the point.

    Ramirez has been a nice addition to the rotation. He's throwing a lot harder than I expected. He's changing speeds well, and his control is outstanding.

    Personally, I think a lot of the recent struggles may have had to do with Don Gullett. It seems that ever since he came to the Reds organization the pitching has been mediocre at BEST. It's well known the pitching has extremely struggled since he came to the Reds, and that every player we had "hope" in turned to crap. (See more recently Ryan Dempster, Eric Milton, etc.)
    Not to defend Gully, but Dempster came to the Reds and promptly needed TJ surgery. Milton was bad the year before, nobody on this board expected anything more than what he gave the Reds last year. The reason the Reds pitching has been bad is because the Red's GM's have been signing bad pitchers for a decade. There have been bright spots, and some really good reclamation projects, but overall, a lot of bad pitchers.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #4
    Member PickOff's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Milton: 1.14 WHIP, team leader (with Arroyo) and 6th in the NL.
    Thank goodness for baseball.

  6. #5
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Personally, I think a lot of the recent struggles may have had to do with Don Gullett. It seems that ever since he came to the Reds organization the pitching has been mediocre at BEST. It's well known the pitching has extremely struggled since he came to the Reds, and that every player we had "hope" in turned to crap. (See more recently Ryan Dempster, Eric Milton, etc.)
    http://redlegnation.com/2006/06/07/r...elsh-part-iii/

    From RLN interview with CW
    RN: Vern Ruhle. The pitching seemed to improve after they let Don Gullett go last year, why?

    CW: I donít know if that was coincidence or not.

    A lot of people have gotten on Don Gullett over the years as a bad pitching coach, but Jack McKeon had painted him as a terrific pitching coach, maybe one of the best ever. I think heís probably somewhere in between.

    I donít think the pitching coach has all that much to do with it.

    From my experience up to the major leagues, the pitching coach in the big league level doesnít instruct. He doesnít teach very much because guys arenít willing to be instructed or be taught. Theyíve gotten here with their certain stuff and theyíre going to stay with their certain stuff and theyíre going to either make it or break it that way.

    Don Gullett was given project after project. And some guys stuck to the wall and some guys didnít.

    I think it was more or less a coincidence that the pitching improved. I think guys got healthy.

    Iím not saying Vern Ruhleís not a good pitching coach, I donít think a pitching coach, you fire one, bring another one in the next week and all of a sudden the pitching improves? Itís not because of the pitching coach is doing anything different. These guys are still throwing the way they want to throw.

    RN: Any current word on how heís doing in his cancer treatments?

    CW: Heís in the hospital currently in Houston, taking cancer treatments for a very serious form of cancer. Iíve not heard in the last week or so how heís doing, but we hope to get an update when we get to Houston.

    RN: Tommy Hume has been acting pitching coach. He seems like heís done a nice job.

    CW: Iíve always thought Tommy would be a great pitching coach.

    Because your pitching coach is very small part instructor. Youíre a big part, big brother. And youíre another part Ė father figure. And you have to be somewhat of a game strategist and have the ear of the manager from a ďwho to bring in whenĒ standpoint.

    He can be their friend, heís pitched in the big leagues, he was an All Star, he knows that itís more mental than anything else and he just tries to keep these guys relaxed. Heís a very calming influence and I think thatís very helpful.

  7. #6
    Cruisin' for trouble
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    We make a couple of moves to improve the bullpen and the team could be interesting all year.

  8. #7
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    We're 3rd in all of MLB in fewest walks allowed (158). Meanwhile, we've allowed the 9th most hits and the 5th most homers. I know we don't have a great staff. But when you stop giving people free passes, the hits and homers hurt a whole lot less. Look at a guy like Curt Schilling. He's always given up lots of homers. But a solo homer hurts less than 2 walks and a double.

    Given that we don't have a great infield defense (thereby negating the advantage of a groundball pitcher), using pitchers who don't walk people might be the easiest way to see great improvement. Call it the "Lizard" effect.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  9. #8
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    the bullpen definitely needs an upgrade as there has to be serious questions about White, Yan and Mays.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #9
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Adding Arroyo and Elizardo, having a healthy Milton, and having Coffey and lately Hammond be lights out in the bullpen have been huge for this team.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  11. #10
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Could Tom Hume having more power as he really is the guy now be any reason why we are improving?

    On Milton, I don't think he was healthy last year. He is spotting his pitches and throwing harder. Maybe he's just healthy. I don't expect him to throw zeros, but he really has looked good. Still a flyball pitcher though and balls will go out. I consider him the 3rd best pitcher now. that's amazing and EZ is 4. Claussen needs some cofidence, but I'm not ready to run him out of town yet!
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  12. #11
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    I'm still reluctant to rely on Milton pitching like that every time out there. He had a similar streak coming out of spring training. I wonder if his knee wears down over time and he needs a bit of time off to adequately recover?
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  13. #12
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    I'm still reluctant to rely on Milton pitching like that every time out there. He had a similar streak coming out of spring training. I wonder if his knee wears down over time and he needs a bit of time off to adequately recover?
    certainly valid specualtion. The bad memories of the 2005 Milton are still all too fresh.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #13
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    I'm still reluctant to rely on Milton pitching like that every time out there. He had a similar streak coming out of spring training. I wonder if his knee wears down over time and he needs a bit of time off to adequately recover?

    I am too BUT I no longer expect a loss when he pitches. As far as Gullet...the pitching improved last year almost as soon as he left. I just don't think he was any good. I do think that one of the bigget moves has been not having Graves blowing up this year and Arroyo showing the other guys that a starter can go past the 5th inning in GABP.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  15. #14
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    I'm still reluctant to rely on Milton pitching like that every time out there. He had a similar streak coming out of spring training. I wonder if his knee wears down over time and he needs a bit of time off to adequately recover?
    if so, the Reds need to realize that and plan accordingly. Give him every 4th start off or something to rest. If he can pitch like he has the last few outings with some rest in between, what a boon that would be.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  16. #15
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: It's crazy, but this pitching is solid

    No doubt the pitching has been surprisingly good. What Eric Milton and Elizardo Ramirez are doing right now is almost a Miracle of Fatima.

    And in that comes the concern. I find it highly improbable this run will continue for another four months. It's been great fun to watch so far and I'm in no hurry for it to end, but you've got to know the difference between a fling and the one you stick with for the long haul. The team is playing well, no qualifications needed, but at some point some of the shine is going to wear off this pitching staff.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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