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Thread: The No. 5 Hole

  1. #1
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    The No. 5 Hole

    Fans always fear the offense will tank without Griffey in the lineup. Here's one of the reasons why. We're getting not just crappy, but positively putrid production out of our No. 5 batters.

    Here's the line from that gaping black hole so far this season:

    215 AB, 34 runs, 18 RBI, .186 BA, .319 OBP, .321 SLG, .640 OPS.

    The culprits:

    Hatteberg, 76 AB, 9 runs, 3 RBI, .237 BA.
    Kearns, 67 AB, 13 runs, 11 RBI, .194 BA
    Dunn, 36 AB, 10 runs, 3 RBI, .222 BA

    Although he has contributed to this abyss by going 1 for 24 with 1 run and 1 RBI to go along with his .042 BA, my solution to the No. 5 dilemma: Insert Encarnacion there on a more or less permament basis and see if he can produce some stable production.

    Anyone else have any other bright ideas?

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  3. #2
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock
    Fans always fear the offense will tank without Griffey in the lineup. Here's one of the reasons why. We're getting not just crappy, but positively putrid production out of our No. 5 batters.

    Here's the line from that gaping black hole so far this season:

    215 AB, 34 runs, 18 RBI, .186 BA, .319 OBP, .321 SLG, .640 OPS.

    The culprits:

    Hatteberg, 76 AB, 9 runs, 3 RBI, .237 BA.
    Kearns, 67 AB, 13 runs, 11 RBI, .194 BA
    Dunn, 36 AB, 10 runs, 3 RBI, .222 BA

    Although he has contributed to this abyss by going 1 for 24 with 1 run and 1 RBI to go along with his .042 BA, my solution to the No. 5 dilemma: Insert Encarnacion there on a more or less permament basis and see if he can produce some stable production.

    Anyone else have any other bright ideas?
    My main problem with that analysis is that each of the three you listed have very small sample sizes. Take Dunn for example. You wanna critisize what he's done in only 36 at-bats?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    I tend to think Kearns is the best fit there. He generally has a good AB and has the ability to put the ball in play with lower than average strikeout potential. His numbers there aren't great from what you posted, but I don't exactly remember the situations where he batted 5th, as in, who else was playing and the pitchers against. I think an argument could also be made for RA. I'm not sold on EEs ability to hit in the clutch though, he's just not quite refined enough in my book. I'm good with him 6/7 though.
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  5. #4
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    With Phillips at 2B and Dunn/Kearns/Griffey in the lineup, I would like to see:

    Phillips
    Dunn
    Griffey
    Kearns
    Lopez
    Encarnacion
    Hatteberg
    Ross

    With Aurillia in the lineup, I'd like to see:
    Lopez
    Dunn
    Griffey
    Kearns
    Encarnacion
    Hatteberg
    Aurillia
    Ross

  6. #5
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    Quote Originally Posted by BigKlu
    My main problem with that analysis is that each of the three you listed have very small sample sizes. Take Dunn for example. You wanna critisize what he's done in only 36 at-bats?
    My post isn't meant as a critique of any individual player. If that was the case, I wouldn't be recommending Encarnacion for a quasi-permanent role batting No. 5. After all, he has fared worse there (in an admittedly small number of plate appearances) than Hatteberg, Kearns or Dunn.

    But I like the idea of Encarnacion hitting No. 5 because he is one of the few Reds (in addition to Griffey) who really turns up his offense a notch when he bats with runners in scoring position. Encarnacion's results in those instances: 57 AB, 18 H, 23 runs, 31 RBI, .316 BA, .596 SLG. So I would give Encarnacion an extended tryout hitting No. 5, to hopefully plug the gap I mentioned.

    I would leave Kearns hitting No. 6. This year, he has thrived there, but wilted when inserted into more pressure-packed situations. Dunn, I'd bat No. 3 or No. 4, most likely No. 3. I think he would benefit hitting ahead of Griffey, and his OBP, if not his BA, justifies the placement.

  7. #6
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    That is some interesting stats.

    I would have a lineup of

    Lopez
    Phillips
    JR
    Kearns
    Dunn
    Aurilia(plays everyday @1st)
    Encarnacion
    Ross

  8. #7
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds
    With Phillips at 2B and Dunn/Kearns/Griffey in the lineup, I would like to see:

    Phillips
    Dunn
    Griffey
    Kearns
    Lopez
    Encarnacion
    Hatteberg
    Ross

    With Aurillia in the lineup, I'd like to see:
    Lopez
    Dunn
    Griffey
    Kearns
    Encarnacion
    Hatteberg
    Aurillia
    Ross
    Interesting idea, GoReds. Yes, I do think Lopez could deliver in this clutch spot. But then we don't make maximum use of his many other positive offensive skills -- speed, high OBP, smart situational hitting.

    The batting order I'd prefer to see, barring injuries or extended slumps:

    Lopez
    Freel/Phillips
    Dunn
    Griffey
    Encarnacion
    Kearns
    Hatteberg/Aurilia
    Catcher

  9. #8
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    I'd stick Edwin there and leave him there. I don't understand why Jerry is fasinated with moving everyone around everyday, but whatever works.

    Lopez
    Phillips
    Griffey
    Dunn
    EE
    Kearns
    hat/RA
    Ross
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  10. #9
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock
    My post isn't meant as a critique of any individual player. If that was the case, I wouldn't be recommending Encarnacion for a quasi-permanent role batting No. 5. After all, he has fared worse there (in an admittedly small number of plate appearances) than Hatteberg, Kearns or Dunn.

    But I like the idea of Encarnacion hitting No. 5 because he is one of the few Reds (in addition to Griffey) who really turns up his offense a notch when he bats with runners in scoring position. Encarnacion's results in those instances: 57 AB, 18 H, 23 runs, 31 RBI, .316 BA, .596 SLG. So I would give Encarnacion an extended tryout hitting No. 5, to hopefully plug the gap I mentioned.

    I would leave Kearns hitting No. 6. This year, he has thrived there, but wilted when inserted into more pressure-packed situations. Dunn, I'd bat No. 3 or No. 4, most likely No. 3. I think he would benefit hitting ahead of Griffey, and his OBP, if not his BA, justifies the placement.
    I really like Encarnación in the 5 slot, too. He is a much more dangerous hitter than Kearns, IMO.
    Flipping Dunn and Griff is a good idea, but I doubt Narron will go for it.
    Griff/Dunn/EE/AK is a good middle of the order, in any case.
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  11. #10
    Off the schneid TStuck's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    Quote Originally Posted by Willy
    That is some interesting stats.

    I would have a lineup of

    Lopez
    Phillips
    JR
    Kearns
    Dunn
    Aurilia(plays everyday @1st)
    Encarnacion
    Ross

    An intriguing lineup Willy. I kinda like it. It would seem like having Dunn's high OBP and power right in the middle of the lineup could potentially lead to extended innings on offense. Putting Kearns between Jr and Dunn should lead to him seeing plenty of good pitches to hit. Having Aurilia and EdE after Dunn gives him decent lineup protection to keep other teams from just pitching around him. Plus this would satisfy Jerry's penchant for wanting to split up the LH hitters in the lineup.
    You could have something here....
    Better to be silent and thought a fool, than speak and be proven one.

  12. #11
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    I'd stick Edwin there and leave him there. I don't understand why Jerry is fasinated with moving everyone around everyday, but whatever works.

    Lopez
    Phillips
    Griffey
    Dunn
    EE
    Kearns
    hat/RA
    Ross
    Great lineup.

    I hope Jerry doesn't take Rich's big game and use it as the excuse to bat him 3rd 4th and give him the 3B job for weeks on end, check his numbers, he's been pretty avg this year.
    Go Gators!

  13. #12
    Who Dey!! GridironGrace's Avatar
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    Re: The No. 5 Hole

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock
    Kearns, 67 AB, 13 runs, 11 RBI, .194 BA
    he should be #5 everyday.........period
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