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Thread: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Most of you remember the situation. In 1999, the Reds were contending and in desperate need of an upgrade for their rotation. They traded prospects B.J. Ryan and Jacobo Sequea to Baltimore for Juan Guzman. The Reds new starter went 6-3, with a 3.03 ERA in 12 starts. The Reds went right down to the wire and ended up tied for first in the wild card race. (Memory seems to fail me after that) So, that was the last real hurrah for the team from Cincy.

    Guzman signed after the season with the d-Rays, pitched a few games, and then was out of baseball with arm miseries. I'm not sure what happened to Sequea, though he might be in the National's system. Ryan has become a lights out closer for the Blue Jays.

    Here are Ryan's stats:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...?playerId=4133

    Did the Reds make a mistake in 1999? Would you do the same type of trade today?

    Notice, the Orioles really had Ryan for his growing pain years and two very good seasons. He priced himself out of that town when he became a free agent. Would Cincy have had the same problem?
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

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  3. #2
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    You still do the deal. Guzman was very good down the stretch and the Reds finished tied for the wildcard.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  4. #3
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    While I would absolutely love to have Ryan back in the fold, I don't think you can really regret any trade which funtionally put you in the playoffs.

    If you're asking if I'd trade a promising AA closer for a starter that would put us in the playoffs, the answer is yes. We had no way of knowing Ryan would turn in to the absolute monster he's become and we had Williamson and Graves both throwing great in the pen.

    If we're in the hunt and we can trade say Ryan Wagner for a proven vet starter for the stretch run, I'd do it.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes and yes

    The mulligans that I'd want are O'Neill for Kelly, Wetteland for Dave Martinez +, and Konerko (instead of Casey or Young) for Cameron.

    The biggest deal that didn't get done but absolutely should have been done was dealing some combination of Graves/Casey/Boone + minor league arms (Basham? Howington? Moseley? Pauly?) to the Phils when Rolen was on the table.

    Not trading Dmitri Young for Ramiro Mendoza still irks me...though admittedly Mendoza's career went down the tubes pretty quickly thereafter.

  6. #5
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    I agree on Rolen, 15. But I think the problem was money, not prospects. The Phillies weren't willing to gaurantee a negotiation window for a long term deal and ownership was unwilling to take the risk that he'd demand too much or wouldn't sign at all.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #6
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Yes, a reliever for a starter? YES YES YES
    Go Gators!

  8. #7
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    B.J. Ryan for October and cash?

    Heck yes.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  9. #8
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    I would do it again in a heartbeat.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch

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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    I would trade Ryan for Guzman, and I'd trade Guzman for Ryan.

    keep on truckin'

  11. #10
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton
    I would trade Ryan for Guzman, and I'd trade Guzman for Ryan.

    keep on truckin'
    I get it. There is a message hidden here.

    Truckin, got my chips cashed in. Keep truckin', like the do-dah man
    Together, more or less in line, just keep truckin' on.

    Arrows of neon and flashing marquees out on Main Street.
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    Your typical city involved in a typical daydream
    Hang it up and see what tomorrow brings.


    I've tried playing the song backwards and only got something that sounded like "cranberry sauce".

    Anyway, I don't know about Detroit or New York, but the Chicago Cubs have Scott Eyre and Bobby Howry. I'd package Ryan Wagner for both of those guys. I think the Reds need to solidify the bullpen before they add another starter.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  12. #11
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball
    I've tried playing the song backwards and only got something that sounded like "cranberry sauce".
    No, that was "I buried Paul".

    Pay attention to the open sky

  13. #12
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker
    No, that was "I buried Paul".
    Maybe...but it sounds more like "I buried Jerry".
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  14. #13
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Compare this one to the fleecing of the expos Cleveland accomplished a few years back. I would do it again. I think les'pos got took though.
    4009



  15. #14
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Chalk me up for a yessir...
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  16. #15
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: In retrospect, would you do a Ryan for a Guzman again??

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball
    Maybe...but it sounds more like "I buried Jerry".
    I thought it was "Eat Ben & Jerry's"
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.


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