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Thread: Krivsky's BAD moves

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Krivsky's BAD moves

    We all know about Krivsky's good moves: Willy Mo for Arroyo, Hatteberg, Phillips & D Ross. IMO here are some of Krivsk'y bad moves:

    1. McCracken should be long gone

    2. Denorfia is rotting at AAA

    3. Olmedo is showing signs of improvement over 2004/2005 & yet Krivsky trades for Juan Castro

    4. He didn't even give Cody Ross a shot at being the 4th outfielder

    5. Rick White should be long gone

    6. Esteban Yan??? Joe Mays??? Do we have no one at AA/AAA better that this to pitch middle relief?

    There is a familiar theme. "young players need to play everyday at AAA". Hogwash. If Denorfia was on the big league club he would have started 1/2 the games by now ( remember Griffey missed ~30 games ).
    Olmedo could start for each of the infielders once every ten games & pinchhit or come in for EE for defense late in games. Look around the league & you see young players & hitters getting their feet wet in the bigs as a bench/role player or in middle relief.

    5. More controversial: I believe that even though the Reds are close their relief pitching & defense will cause them to fall out of contention. I fear Krivsky will wait until it is too late to make any moves to help the bullpen.

    - Will

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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Team Fielding Stats
    Plus/Minus Fielding
    UER TE FE SB CS% Pit Fld Tot Grnd Air
    ARI 29 16 24 36 33% -2 -19 -21 0 -19
    ATL 36 20 24 32 30% -12 7 -5 -13 20
    CHN 23 22 17 56 23% 9 25 34 7 18
    CIN 37 31 26 22 42% 8 -19 -11 -4 -16
    COL 29 14 24 40 26% -10 -11 -21 5 -16
    FLA 32 29 19 35 41% 1 -19 -18 -19 0
    HOU 20 15 17 39 20% -10 13 3 41 -28
    LAN 28 23 28 46 16% 6 -15 -9 -11 -4
    MIL 32 33 28 42 24% 1 -25 -24 -14 -11
    WAS 30 24 25 52 19% 10 22 32 -1 23
    NYN 20 20 23 48 25% 9 26 35 9 16
    PHI 29 24 23 39 28% -17 -16 -33 5 -21
    PIT 27 21 23 37 39% -15 -32 -47 -14 -18
    STL 21 11 27 19 39% -11 45 34 33 12
    SD 16 12 17 54 16% 28 18 46 13 5
    SF 19 16 13 33 33% 8 39 48 25 15

    League 428 331 358 630 28% 2 39 41 63 -24

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    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M
    We all know about Krivsky's good moves: Willy Mo for Arroyo, Hatteberg, Phillips & D Ross. IMO here are some of Krivsk'y bad moves:

    1. McCracken should be long gone

    2. Denorfia is rotting at AAA

    3. Olmedo is showing signs of improvement over 2004/2005 & yet Krivsky trades for Juan Castro

    4. He didn't even give Cody Ross a shot at being the 4th outfielder

    5. Rick White should be long gone

    6. Esteban Yan??? Joe Mays??? Do we have no one at AA/AAA better that this to pitch middle relief?

    There is a familiar theme. "young players need to play everyday at AAA". Hogwash. If Denorfia was on the big league club he would have started 1/2 the games by now ( remember Griffey missed ~30 games ).
    Olmedo could start for each of the infielders once every ten games & pinchhit or come in for EE for defense late in games. Look around the league & you see young players & hitters getting their feet wet in the bigs as a bench/role player or in middle relief.

    5. More controversial: I believe that even though the Reds are close their relief pitching & defense will cause them to fall out of contention. I fear Krivsky will wait until it is too late to make any moves to help the bullpen.

    - Will

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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    You want to have a veteran bench where the players know their roles and are happy with playing once or twice a week.

    You have young kids like Denorifa and Olmedo sitting on the bench playing once or twice a week, they will collect more rust and dust that will do them more harm than good. Unless they are playing everyday at the majors, they are better off playing everyday at Triple A till an opening or trade occurs.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    I also read somewhere that Krivskey is not keen on moving players directly from AA. I think in the long run, that helps the ballclub in letting players progress at their natural levels.

    Likewise, as others have noted, the Reds gain more value from Denorfia playing regularly down in Louisville than being the 4th outfielder up here. He either becomes ready to play regularly in the Big Leagues for us or becomes a necessary chip in a subsequent trade. I think the same is true of Olmedo as well.

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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    the Reds gain more value from Denorfia playing regularly down in Louisville than being the 4th outfielder up here.
    It also keeps his arbitration clock from ticking while he sits on the bench.

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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M
    6. Esteban Yan??? Joe Mays??? Do we have no one at AA/AAA better that this to pitch middle relief?
    No.

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    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    Likewise, as others have noted, the Reds gain more value from Denorfia playing regularly down in Louisville than being the 4th outfielder up here.
    How so? Do we think Denorfia has more to learn in Louisville? Is he going to improve? I just don't know if I buy this argument.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M
    If Denorfia was on the big league club he would have started 1/2 the games by now ( remember Griffey missed ~30 games ).
    That would have really pee'd the Freel supporters off, because that means he would have had to sit the bench.


    More controversial: I believe that even though the Reds are close their relief pitching & defense will cause them to fall out of contention. I fear Krivsky will wait until it is too late to make any moves to help the bullpen.

    - Will
    At this stage of the season there really isn't much available (pitching/bullpen-wise) on the ML level that other teams are gonna part with right now. And to EVEN pry a quality middle relief guy away from a team that is already out of contention would cost the Reds something of worth IMO... maybe they could get something solid for Denorfria?

    But that's why teams are looking at players that are released, etc., to see what may be salvageable. Picken's are slim right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    I also read somewhere that Krivskey is not keen on moving players directly from AA. I think in the long run, that helps the ballclub in letting players progress at their natural levels.
    And I wholeheartedly agree with that approach.

    As far as bringing up kids from AA/AAA to try at middle relief - haven't we already tried that this year with a few guys, and it didn't fair too well?

    There is a function/objective of the minor league system, and I don't think panic call-ups, and then throwing them to the wolves to see what some kid can do for us is the right approach at all - to circumvent that process.

    I really have no problem with them releasing Q. But the reason they haven't is because they don't want Denorfria riding the bench and not playing on a regular basis. That in itself is rotting. He's a phone call away if/when needed.

    But I agree wholeheartedly with the Castro signing. I'm just shaking my head over that one.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    The Twins over the past 6 years have shown a strong aversion to bringing any young guy in the fold until he's essentially forced his way in. Look at how they handled Santana, Liriano, Bartlett (the reason Castro was available), heck -- David Ortiz.

    Obviously that wasn't Krivsky at the helm, but I'm guessing there is a similar philosophy. You don't jerk young guys around. You hold them back until they are clearly ready. If they fail, you don't give them a ton of time in the majors to figure it out.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    How so? Do we think Denorfia has more to learn in Louisville? Is he going to improve? I just don't know if I buy this argument.
    How is he gonna get playing time with the Reds when playing time is so scarce? Is it gonna help him to sit the bench next to Freel?

    Unless the Reds make a move to trade one of their current OFers, then Deno is not gonna get the playing time.

    And the only likely candidates would be, IMO, a Kearns or a Freel. Then I'd love to see a Deno in there to see what he could do.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    I like Denofia in AAA for some reason. I just feel he is buying a year of development while we have had good health with Griff/Dunn/Kearns.

    I just don't get Cody Ross being shipped out while hanging with McCracken. Q looks totally overmatched and produces very few good ABs in a pinch hitting role. Why we didn't hang with Ross is beyond me?

    I'll agree on Castro vs. Olmedo. Why not hang onto the extra million and go with Olmedo as defensive sub. I see no real upgrade here and we lose cash in the deal.

    I'd really prefer to just give Germano, Dumtrait, AAA guys a shot instead of Yan, White, etc.. So many never gave much faith to Lizard and the guy is our 3rd best starter at this point. I don't see the risk in Germano or the other AAA guys vs. running White/Yan, etc.. out there to only get shelled.

    But all in all...these are minor and very inexpensive moves. The big moves have been solid acquisitions and are moving the team in the right direction.
    Last edited by UK Reds Fan; 06-16-2006 at 11:39 AM.

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    How so? Do we think Denorfia has more to learn in Louisville? Is he going to improve? I just don't know if I buy this argument.
    We already have a 4th outfielder...Freel. The question I guess is do you want Denorfia up here as a 5th outfielder and I say no. He would be rotting doing Q's job.

    As for going over the list that started this thread, if those are Krivsky's worst moves then he's doing very well.

  15. #14
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    How so? Do we think Denorfia has more to learn in Louisville? Is he going to improve? I just don't know if I buy this argument.
    He's certainly not going to improve sitting on the bench behind Griffey, Dunn, Kearns and Freel.

    That was our big problem with WMP: he signed that stupid contract with the Yanks and then we couldn't develop him in the minors. We lost out twice there, I think, because he could have put up monster numbers at AAA and then been traded earlier, precluding the outfield logjam that screwed up Kearns, etc., etc. Instead, WMP had to sit on his butt for two years and "learn" at the major league level, which I think is a myth unless you're talking about learning how to chew gum or tobacco in a cooler way.

    Granted, Kriv managed to make good on WMP's value anyway by trading for Arroyo... but we got kind of lucky with that trade IMO, landing a pitcher who basically "figured it out" at the right time. But I don't think Kriv wants to do that again if he can avoid it.

    Basically, I think Kriv is much better than DanO at packaging and selling his talent all the way through the system. Denorfia looks better to other teams if he's hitting .350 at AAA than he does if he's hitting .350 in 2 AB's in MLB. Unless he's going to get significant playing time, don't bring him up.
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-16-2006 at 11:45 AM.
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    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky's BAD moves

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    How is he gonna get playing time with the Reds when playing time is so scarce? Is it gonna help him to sit the bench next to Freel?

    Unless the Reds make a move to trade one of their current OFers, then Deno is not gonna get the playing time.
    My point is, I don't think it helps him either way, and given that I would rather have his bat/defense on the bench than McCracken. I don't see how Deno would be "harmed" by being up here. Sure, his playing time would drop significantly, but I don't see how that hurts a player who has developed abotu as much as he is ever going to at AAA. Additionally, the limited time he may get might also help his trade value, should the Reds decide to package him somewhere.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.


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