Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 55

Thread: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

  1. #31
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,979

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Anglo-Saxons typically don't dive... Brits, Scots, Micks, Aussies, and Yanks
    Do Germans? Scandinavians? Ottoman Turks?

    I don't think it's a machismo thing, I think it's a theatrical thing. Some cultures view sport in different terms; some enjoy amping it up with drama and expression, and, yes, rule-bending. What's more Anglo-Saxon than bending the rules?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,959

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    No I should have mentioned them. Germans abhor diving as well. And their Scandinavian counterparts don't seem to be divers either.
    Last edited by WMR; 03-03-2007 at 09:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  4. #33
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,959

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Do Germans? Scandinavians? Ottoman Turks?

    I don't think it's a machismo thing, I think it's a theatrical thing. Some cultures view sport in different terms; some enjoy amping it up with drama and expression, and, yes, rule-bending. What's more Anglo-Saxon than bending the rules?
    It seems like they draw a distinction between 'rule bending' and the outright duplicitiousness of simulation... is it machismo? I'm not sure. But certain cultures definitely seem to draw a line and create this distinction... it'd make an interesting study to find out exactly why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  5. #34
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    east of WOY
    Posts
    5,045

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Why would your college professors call you a WASP? That seems a bit unprofessional.
    He was a bit unprofessional. A lot of what happened in that class could be good discussion fodder for the Peanut Gallery.

  6. #35
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,979

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    Does this apply to labeling the athletes of an entire nation? Not that I care about the Italian, Mexican or any South American soccer teams. Just want things to be consistent.

    Cannot remember who said the above, but can that person step up and let us know if this thread is too political for their personal tastes? If not, perhaps they can make posts that turn the tide so that it will be shut down by a mod.

    Thanks!
    No, but personal attacks are forbidden on the site, too.

    Hey, you don't have to convince me to go full-out political on the non-baseball side of things.

    I loved it when it got down and dirty. I say bring back political and religious threads full bloody time. I'll raise a toast to that!

    I just don't dig it when guys like GAC get to take Republican sideswipes ("Hey! White middle-class American men are people TOO!") with impunity. That's all.

    Back to your regularly scheduled race-baiting.

  7. #36
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,258

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Do Germans? Scandinavians? Ottoman Turks?

    I don't think it's a machismo thing, I think it's a theatrical thing. Some cultures view sport in different terms; some enjoy amping it up with drama and expression, and, yes, rule-bending. What's more Anglo-Saxon than bending the rules?
    I think its pretty cynical, the "Italian Way." On one end of the field, a player will throw an elbow to the face and on the other end he drops if someone breathes on him and rolls around like he's been shot. That's not soccer. It's pro wrestling. I get the impression that in the Italian game, they'd rather win on a cheap penalty kick than a straight goal in regular play.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  8. #37
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,979

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I think its pretty cynical, the "Italian Way." On one end of the field, a player will throw an elbow to the face and on the other end he drops if someone breathes on him and rolls around like he's been shot. That's not soccer. It's pro wrestling. I get the impression that in the Italian game, they'd rather win on a cheap penalty kick than a straight goal in regular play.
    Yeah, I don't watch soccer. You would likely know better. I don't pretend to know what's going on in the minds of men I've never seen, much less met.

  9. #38
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    east of WOY
    Posts
    5,045

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    I don't think it has to be a racial discussion, but the way different cultures approach sports would be a pretty interesting discussion, not just relating to soccer, but other sports as well. Some of the international basketball has shown some differing styles of play and we saw what happened to the US team there. Pick any sport that's played internationally and I'm sure you could come up with some intriguing cultural differences.

  10. #39
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,258

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Yeah, I don't watch soccer. You would likely know better. I don't pretend to know what's going on in the minds of men I've never seen, much less met.
    Well, the way the rules of soccer are set up, giving one team a penalty kick can be devastating to the other team. When you see the high rate of flopping in the penalty area and the overreacting in order to "sell" the penalty, you can pretty much see what they're after, not unlike when Craig Biggio stands over the plate covered in body armor. Except Biggio doesn't get a free game of "Home Run Derby" if he gets hit by a pitch.

    I don't think the style of play has as much to do with being Italian or Mediterranean for that matter as much as it has to do with what style of play is promoted in the professional leagues in those countries. You see a lot of foreign players, many from Mediterranean countries, in the EPL, the Bundesliga, the Scandinavian leagues and even in the MLS. But you don't see the flopping. Players, regardless of nationality, will generally modify their style of play depending on where they're playing. That's why I've seen so-called "Anglo-Saxon" types playing in Serie A taking dives just like the rest of them. The Italians get made fun of for it because they've carried that style of play on to their national team, which many people watching the World Cup found objectionable.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  11. #40
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,793

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    The lure of the set play is a tool of the smaller teams in international play, the latin teams seem to be smaller then the Northern Europeans and in head to head competitions that creates a conflicting style of play, one that is often on the International stage and one that holds greater impact in the end result.

    Hence the increased impact of set plays, and the increase in flopping.

    In the pro leagues there is usually a mix of sizes and styles that greatly reduces the flopping, mostly because teams strength isn't just focused on skill players, there is more brute strength in the EPL and with that comes an increased tolerance from the refs, with that increased tolerance comes the fact that flopping is looked at as a lesser part of the game and it won't be a carrot for the refs to follow.
    Last edited by westofyou; 03-03-2007 at 10:24 AM.

  12. #41
    Member NJReds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    5,432

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I think its pretty cynical, the "Italian Way." On one end of the field, a player will throw an elbow to the face and on the other end he drops if someone breathes on him and rolls around like he's been shot. That's not soccer. It's pro wrestling. I get the impression that in the Italian game, they'd rather win on a cheap penalty kick than a straight goal in regular play.

    If you think that this is only syptamatic of the Italians, then you don't watch much soccer. The French earned penalty kicks against the Portuguese and Italians in the WC on blatent dives. Watch Mexico v. the US and it's exactly as you stated...cheap shots on one side, theatrics on the other. As long as it's tolerated by officials and the people running the game, then it'll keep happening.

  13. #42
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,258

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    If you think that this is only syptamatic of the Italians, then you don't watch much soccer. The French earned penalty kicks against the Portuguese and Italians in the WC on blatent dives. Watch Mexico v. the US and it's exactly as you stated...cheap shots on one side, theatrics on the other. As long as it's tolerated by officials and the people running the game, then it'll keep happening.
    I didn't mean to imply it was only the Italians. I just call it the "Italian" way because, IMO, the Italian leagues seem to represent the gold standard on this style of play. What I dislike about it is that they have some incredibly talented and skillful players who show incredible finesse and ball control. When they just play the game, it's very compelling. Unfortunately, once the diving and theatrics start, the game seems to grind to a halt while the ref cards everyone and they get the set piece ready. If there could be two things I could eliminate from International Football, it would be diving and the offside trap as a legitimate defensive tactic.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  14. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,186

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    I don't watch nearly enough to know, but in reading "How Soccer explains the world,"(An excellent book btw.)

    They explain that Italians more than any other team seem to play an overly defensive game. Keeping an extra back behind the fullbacks to play "sweeper."
    When played correctly diving is almost necessary because scoring on anything other than a set piece or a penalty shot is basically impossible.

    Again people who watch more soccer than I can attest to the accuracy of the statement.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  15. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,111

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    If you think that this is only syptamatic of the Italians, then you don't watch much soccer. The French earned penalty kicks against the Portuguese and Italians in the WC on blatent dives. Watch Mexico v. the US and it's exactly as you stated...cheap shots on one side, theatrics on the other. As long as it's tolerated by officials and the people running the game, then it'll keep happening.
    Of course you're right. This discussion has been held before on this website and the same people are reiterating the same national stereoptypes. Ignorance is slow to change.

  16. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,111

    Re: EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Yeah I know what you're saying... I watch a bunch of soccer, though, and it really is compelling and interesting as to how those nations I brought up see diving in soccer as a taboo... can't remember a single instance of seeing a man from one of those countries try to draw a penalty through such means.
    Arguably the biggest stars for their countries, Michael Ballack (german) and Steven Gerrard (British) have been caught on videotape diving, often with great success. Sheffield united manager Neil Warnock loudly criticised Gerrard for simulating in the Feb. 23 game vrs/ Sheffield United - it was one of the bigger stories of the EPL last week. Do you follow the EPL? If you don't you would see lots of diving by players from all countries.
    Last edited by Betterread; 03-03-2007 at 02:58 PM.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25