Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Rank the for sale items

  1. #1
    Member Marc D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,770

    Rank the for sale items

    Just wanted to see what others thought. I don't really want to turn it into a trainwreck over should we sell or not, lets just say for the sake of argument we are going to. I know we won't trade everyone, but I wouldn't be opposed if we did. Here's my .02

    Top Shelf(people gladly pay for the good stuff)
    Bronson Arroyo: Absolutely pitching out of his mind this season and a great contract. His value can never be any higher and I don't think he can continue putting up these kind of numbers. He could be our Herschel Walker if Kriv can find our Minnesota Vikings.

    Adam Dunn: Goes without saying. Great numbers and great contract also. Make a contender desperate for a big bat pay dearly Wayne.

    Import Beer(probably more expensive than it should be but it looks cool)

    FeLo-Who doesn't need a potent switch hitting SS? Defense and pending contract status along with being a Boras client make him potentially more expensive than he's really worth.

    AK- Someone could buy into the fact that this years numbers are the real Kearns and over do it.

    LaRue- career offensive numbers are among the best out there but he's having a bad '06, coming off a knee injury and his contract's a consideration. Injuries to a contenders catcher could move him up to top shelf.

    E Ramierez-I'm not opposed to keeping the guy but he's pitching well above his means right now (imo) so see if you can charge the big import tax on someone.

    B Phillips- just like EZ. I like him and wouldn't mind keeping him but if someone were to pay his currently inflated price then I'm all ears.

    Domestic Beer (You get what you pay for and its good enough for most)

    Harang- Solid middle of rotation young pitcher but we can lose with him or we can lose without him. If a contender will part with two younger future Harangs to win now, ship him out.

    Aurilia- RZ fodder for many moons but as a super sub/bench guy he has legit value.

    Freel-See Aurilia.

    Coffey- I'd hate to part with him but he's a legit ML caliber set up guy and thats a nice thing to have in what will surely be a sellers market.

    Well Drinks(there's a reason it's .25 cents a glass)

    Claussen-He's left handed

    Mercker-After he heals, he's still left handed.

    Hatteberg-Make sure they notice the OBP Wayne.

    Ryan Wagner- He just needs a change of scenery(yeah, thats the ticket)

    Castro- Aye caramba

    Any bullpen member-"most folks pay dearly to drink the stuff we ring from the bar towels fella but in your case I'm sure we can work out a deal..."

    If I could sell this stuff I would have already

    Milton and Griffey for obvious reasons. My question is would it be worth it to package them with a top shelfer and free up the money?

    Anyway, just one guys uninformed and bored opinions. Thoughts?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,388

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Felipe would bring more then Dunn. Power hitting COF that strike out alot are a dime a dozen, Dunn just does it better then most. However a 26 year old all-star SS, with a good OBP, decent power, and pretty good wheels are not.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  4. #3
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    Felipe would bring more then Dunn. Power hitting COF that strike out alot are a dime a dozen, Dunn just does it better then most. However a 26 year old all-star SS, with a good OBP, decent power, and pretty good wheels are not.
    26 year old outfielders with a .939 OPS and career OPS over .900 are a dime a dozen? Fooled me. Only 15 major league OFers currently are OPSing over .925, six of which are over 30 years old. Players like Dunn are not a dime a dozen.

    VORP

    Adam Dunn-17.5
    Felipe Lopez-15.8

    If I were a General Manager of a major league team, I would prefer Adam Dunn to Felipe Lopez. Not a knock on Felipe by any stretch - I think Lopez is a great player and one of the best hitting SS in baseball - but Adam Dunn is just that good.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  5. #4
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,388

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    26 year old outfielders with a .939 OPS and career OPS over .900 are a dime a dozen? Fooled me. Only 15 major league OFers currently are OPSing over .925, six of which are over 30 years old. Players like Dunn are not a dime a dozen.

    VORP

    Adam Dunn-17.5
    Felipe Lopez-15.8

    If I were a General Manager of a major league team, I would prefer Adam Dunn to Felipe Lopez. Not a knock on Felipe by any stretch, I think Lopez is a great player and one of the best hitting SS in baseball, but Adam Dunn is just that good.
    OBM don't take what I said as an insult to Dunn. I didn't say Dunn was a dime a dozen, I said power hitting outfielders are a dime a dozen, but Dunn does it better then most. To me, you can find a replacement for Dunn easier then you could find a replacement for Felipe.

    I have been saying since April that we should build around Dunn and Felipe.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  6. #5
    Member schroomytunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    wilmington n.c.
    Posts
    957

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Hey I agree with most of your comments: I think we need to listen to any deal possible at this point, no we are not going to win the WS this year, but we are closing the gap on the wild card teams. We all know our team can hit, but it is our pitching that's killing us, mainly out of the pen. Can we address that at the deadline, probably, but it will cost us some good prospects, of which we have few. I am all for us being sellers at the deadline, but only if its done cautiously, with the future still in mind. I would try to acquire as much young talent as I can find regardless of positions, they can then be used to sweeten future deals. Deals that I think can be made now/or by July 31st are-

    Catching-we cannot afford to carry 3 catcher's anymore at this point we need to move Larue and a prospect to (Colorado) for Ray King or Ryan Shealy.

    Utility-we have 2 of the best in Freel and Aurilia, but we need to replace one of them and aquire some young bullpen arms, somebody will need a bat come July and I think Freel will be very attractive to say someone like (Boston) remember Dave Roberts? I would offer Ryan Freel for Abe Alvarez straight up.

    Pitching(R)-we have maybe 2 guys in the pen that are attractive at this point Coffey and Weathers. We need to trade Weathers to a contender looking for that middle inning guy that wants to shore up for the stretch drive. I think the Mets will be that team that comes calling in July, they are for real this year and there fans want a WS title to rival the Yanks. They are close and only need small pieces to put them there. I think we can offer them Weathers for a package of prospects in the low minors.

    Pitching(S)-I do agree that I think our starters are having good years, but the only one that I dangle at the deadline is Milton, the others are good guys to center around an Ace if we ever get one. Milton however is having a good year and we all know that pitching wins championships. I see only a few teams willing to aquire him and yes they are(Yanks,Boston,Toronto,Detroit,Texas,LADodgers) I really dont think the others will be interested. If I'm Krivsky then I would propose this deal with LAD right now-Eric Milton for Odalis Perez and Johnathon Broxton.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    3,608

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    I know the Reds are struggling but they are still leading the wild card, lets not sell just yet.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  8. #7
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    14,745

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    Felipe would bring more then Dunn. Power hitting COF that strike out alot are a dime a dozen, Dunn just does it better then most. However a 26 year old all-star SS, with a good OBP, decent power, and pretty good wheels are not.

    You have to take it into account that he really isn't a good SS and won't be playing there more than maybe 1 more year, if that.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  9. #8
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    14,745

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    I think you're under valueing Freel and Harang and over valueing Elizardo Ramirez. There is no way on earth the lizard is more valuable in a trade than those two guys.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  10. #9
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Bright, Indiana USA
    Posts
    5,573

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    I think you're under valueing Freel and Harang and over valueing Elizardo Ramirez. There is no way on earth the lizard is more valuable in a trade than those two guys.
    I agree that he has Harang under-valued. Personally, I think he has Freel over-valued. I think he has Elizardo right.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  11. #10
    "So Fla Red"
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    South Florida - The Real Humidor
    Posts
    5,067

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Harang is way, way, way too low. He's in the top three commodities on this 25 man roster. Cheap, above average rotation pieces are gold.

    Agree Freel is too low -- cheap, productive and versatile. Coffey is too low.

    Lizard, Larue are way too high.

    I'm not sure I consider Dunn a cheap contract. Pretty good (sometimes great) numbers and unlimited power bat for sure but he's not cheap anymore.

    IMO, Milton is moving up the list a bit. Another couple of solid weeks are needed, but he could be moved with only 1.5 years left on his contract.

  12. #11
    Member Marc D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,770

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    That wasn't intended to be a #1-whatever ranking. Just a different way to look at grouping them.

    Harang probably is the 3rd or 4th most valuable piece we have but he's still a domestic beer, what you see is exactly what you get and in his case its all pretty good. Aurilia and Freel are domestic beers as well, you know exactly what they bring to the table and again, for their roles, its all good.

    The import beer guys are ones who I personally see as the types we could seriously overcharge another team for.

    Top shelf is just what it says, the type of guys you are going to have to pay dearly for but won't mind doing it because they are just that good.

    I wouldn't even try and rank them 1-25 because its all based on the other teams needs and perceived value of our guy to fill that role.

  13. #12
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    14,745

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D
    That wasn't intended to be a #1-whatever ranking. Just a different way to look at grouping them.

    Harang probably is the 3rd or 4th most valuable piece we have but he's still a domestic beer, what you see is exactly what you get and in his case its all pretty good. Aurilia and Freel are domestic beers as well, you know exactly what they bring to the table and again, for their roles, its all good.

    The import beer guys are ones who I personally see as the types we could seriously overcharge another team for.

    Top shelf is just what it says, the type of guys you are going to have to pay dearly for but won't mind doing it because they are just that good.

    I wouldn't even try and rank them 1-25 because its all based on the other teams needs and perceived value of our guy to fill that role.

    Fair enough.

    I like Micro Brews myself.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  14. #13
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Titletown, FL
    Posts
    3,855

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    We've played 70 games. We're 38-32 after a bitter slump that may or may not be over (I thought the Dunn HR vs. MIL was the end of what was a "mini-slump" at that time, and I was wrong; who is to say this win marks the end of what is now an official slump). We're leading the wild card race in the latter part of June.

    Do I think this team can win the W/S? Probably not. You never know, however. I'm probably the biggest Florida Gator fan you will ever meet, and there's no way I would have bet any considerable $$$$ that they would have won the National Championship this year, even after their torrid start.

    Point is, I just don't see the benefit in dealing our young stars - guys this franchise can build with even if this season turns out to be another disappointment. I don't want us to be this small market team that perpetually rebuilds. Yes, I know our farm system is painfully lacking, and I think we have people running this franchise now that can rectify that situation soon. Believe me - I'm not adverse to adding quality propects to the organization. This is what would bother me:

    Trading Adam Dunn for anything less than a top-of-the-line MAJOR LEAGUE starting pitcher. I'd even accept a young ace closer. I don't WANT to trade Dunn, even though it may make sense. However, if we do, I do not want prospects for a guy who is one of the best power hitters in the game - a rare product of our organization that has become a viable MLB star. This is a guy who could be a cornerstone of this organization for years to come. If we do decide to trade him, it better be for a pitcher who can markedly improve this team NOW, while we are in playoff contention, and the pitcher better not be at the tail end of his career w/a high price tag (See: John Smoltz).

    Trading Aaron Harang for prospects. Again, this is a guy who can be a productive member of this rotation for years to come! Why get rid of him? He's one of a very select few - a prospect we've received in a deadline deal that has actually helped this team. Trading him firmly establishes us as perpetual rebuilders. Yeah, I know someone is going to reply to this with a post that reads something close to "a team in contention (assuming, of course, that the Reds are not in contention) will be desperate to land this guy, and they'll give up one of their best prospects for him." Bah. Best (and I do mean absolute BEST) case scenario is that we pull off a Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir type of deal, and this example isn't wholly relevant as it isn't really accurate to compare Harang and Zambrano, as they are different pitchers at different points in their career. Probably what we will get for Harang is some guy who could possibly BE Aaron Harang in his ML career. We'd save some money along the way and trade him off when someone came calling at the deadline. I'm tired of that process. Can you tell?

    Trading Austin Kearns for someone who is not a ML-ready player who can't contribute to this team as much as he is. I'm not against trading the guy, even though I do firmly believe he is finally turning the corner from oft-injured young OF with nice potential to solid ML player who could grow into a star. Again, not to beat a dead horse, but Kearns is another guy who could be productive (maybe even highly productive) for this team for years. Another piece successfully placed in the puzzle. While I'm not against trading him for someone else who is ready to help this puzzle to be nearer completion, I am against dealing him off for some lefty in AA with a decent curve but a flawed delivery.

    Trading Brandon Phillips simply to land a greater return than what it cost us to land BPhil to begin with. Face it - we got Phillips for an ice cream cone and a napkin. It was not that long ago when BPhil was one of the top prospects in MLB. The Indians cut ties with him, and we have been the beneficiary in what is probably Kriv's best move to date. He's still young, and he's done nothing but produce - in every facet of the game - since he's been here. Again, possibly another fixture in this baseball puzzle for years to come.

    Trading Bronson Arroyo. He's young enough, he's cheap enough, and it appears he has no problems pitching in GAB. Solidifies the rotation. He'll likely never win a Cy Young, but that's okay.

    The idea of trading Todd Coffey is silly enough on its face for me to waste time refuting.

    Trading Ryan Freel. The guy's 30, cheap, good at baseball, and the single most valuable utility guy in the game. Every good team needs a Ryan Freel. Only scenario in which you trade this guy is if it is believed your team is 3-5 years away from being competitive. We are competitive now. End of discussion.

    I love JR, but a strong case can be made as to how we could trade him and still remain competitive. Same for Hatt, FeLo, and RA. OTOH, same case could be made that FeLo should not be dealt. I didn't single him out as I think both arguments are equally as valid.

    Claussen, Weathers, LaRue, Valentin, Mercker - trade away. Get what you can.
    Last edited by TheBigLebowski; 06-19-2006 at 11:49 PM.
    Founder and Ruling Elite of the Derrick Robinson Fan Club. Limited amount of memberships available.

  15. #14
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    55,653

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski
    Claussen, Weathers, LaRue, Valentin, Mercker - trade away. Get what you can.
    Won't get much for that bunch, but for 2 of them it's addition by subtraction
    Go Gators!

  16. #15
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Rainelle, WV
    Posts
    8,110

    Re: Rank the for sale items

    Quote Originally Posted by schroomytunes
    Catching-we cannot afford to carry 3 catcher's anymore at this point we need to move Larue and a prospect to (Colorado) for Ray King or Ryan Shealy.
    I'd rather Valentin. Last year was an abboration. Look, everytime he catches, he makes mistake after mistake in the field. I unload him. Of course with his performance this year, he's probably unloadable.

    Utility-we have 2 of the best in Freel and Aurilia, but we need to replace one of them and aquire some young bullpen arms, somebody will need a bat come July and I think Freel will be very attractive to say someone like (Boston) remember Dave Roberts? I would offer Ryan Freel for Abe Alvarez straight up.
    I totally agree. Most know I'm no Ryan Freel fan. I'm no Rich Aurilia fan either, but given the choice, I send Freel packing. I just think he's the kind of player who will self-destruct in time. Tonight he was a flashy 3-5, but he didn't do anything that led to a run or an rbi. A leadoff hitter who just might make the wrong decision at any time. His brain fades are legend. Out with him.

    Pitching(R)-we have maybe 2 guys in the pen that are attractive at this point Coffey and Weathers. We need to trade Weathers to a contender looking for that middle inning guy that wants to shore up for the stretch drive. I think the Mets will be that team that comes calling in July, they are for real this year and there fans want a WS title to rival the Yanks. They are close and only need small pieces to put them there. I think we can offer them Weathers for a package of prospects in the low minors.
    I totally agree with this. Weathers is great most of the time, but so uncertain he's expendable.

    Pitching(S)-I do agree that I think our starters are having good years, but the only one that I dangle at the deadline is Milton, the others are good guys to center around an Ace if we ever get one. Milton however is having a good year and we all know that pitching wins championships. I see only a few teams willing to aquire him and yes they are(Yanks,Boston,Toronto,Detroit,Texas,LADodgers) I really dont think the others will be interested. If I'm Krivsky then I would propose this deal with LAD right now-Eric Milton for Odalis Perez and Johnathon Broxton.
    Wow! Just what I was thinking. The salary would probably scare off most teams, though. It would not scare the Yanks, Boston or LA, though. Let's fleece them.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
    -Beano Cook


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25