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Thread: Flash Gordon?

  1. #16
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie
    Sadly, I doubt the Phillies truly believe they are out of it. Knowing the Phillies, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they went out and acquired some veteran pitching help. Based on all the past mid-season moves during the Ed Wade regime, and the recent "addition" (if you want to call it that) of Rick White makes me think that they won't perceive themselves as sellers at the deadline. Personally, I would love to see them become sellers and move guys like Gordon, Cormier, Rhodes, Dellucci, either Abreu or Burrell (if the deal is right, obviously), etc. It'll be a shame, too, since they could most likely get a good return for at least Gordon and Cormier if they play things right (which they more then likely wouldn't do, anyways). The Reds do seem like a good fit for at least one of them, as they have some attractive pieces that could be worked into a deal. Not so sure about Denorfia, though. Based on his numbers and what I have read about him, I don't know what he does that the Phillies can't already get in-house from Shane Victorino.
    The press seem to think they're done; now whether Wade does is another matter.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Milton's going nowhere.

    But I absolutely believe that your first point is correct. And yes, Gordon would be an outstanding target.

    So would Paul Byrd (provided the Indians kicked in a little payroll).

    Both pitchers, I guarantee, could be had for nothing but minor league "talent" from the Reds' system. That's like buying two X-Boxes at thrift store prices.
    I'm no fan of Byrd's (IMO he'd be assaulted by LHBs in the GAB), though his season has been on the upswing of late. I really wouldn't want his 2007 contract.
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  4. #18
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'm no fan of Byrd's (IMO he'd be assaulted by LHBs in the GAB), though his season has been on the upswing of late. I really wouldn't want his 2007 contract.
    I'm no huge fan of Byrd's by any means, but when people carp on the fact of losing the major league talent in order find other major league talent, I look to a guy like Byrd, who, because of his salary, would really only cost the Reds minor league sculch in return. So the risk lies in the money it takes to acquire him, not in the talent. And the guy is pretty horse-ish--a steady 6 2/3-7 inning guy on a regular basis.

  5. #19
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Milton's going nowhere.

    But I absolutely believe that your first point is correct. And yes, Gordon would be an outstanding target.

    So would Paul Byrd (provided the Indians kicked in a little payroll).

    Both pitchers, I guarantee, could be had for nothing but minor league "talent" from the Reds' system. That's like buying two X-Boxes at thrift store prices.
    I really can't see a deal involving Paul Byrd, who is owed $7.5M next year, being anything we want to touch. The only way I'd do that is if the Indians paid his salary for the rest of this year, and that's going to be too much money changing hands for that to make any sense. I thought about him until I was reminded that the Indians badly overpaid for him. Of course, if he somehow was Milton's replacement, as in we were able to dump Milton and take on Byrd with the same $, I'm not sure I wouldn't think long and hard about that scenario. I probably wouldn't do it, but it would be tempting.

    Honestly, I was shocked to see how consistent Byrd's numbers are over the years in various venues. But he would scare the bejeebies out of me start after start with his flyball tendencies in GAB and his salary is a little high for what I think he brings to the table.
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  6. #20
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    I really can't see a deal involving Paul Byrd, who is owed $7.5M next year, being anything we want to touch. The only way I'd do that is if the Indians paid his salary for the rest of this year, and that's going to be too much money changing hands for that to make any sense. I thought about him until I was reminded that the Indians badly overpaid for him. Of course, if he somehow was Milton's replacement, as in we were able to dump Milton and take on Byrd with the same $, I'm not sure I wouldn't think long and hard about that scenario. I probably wouldn't do it, but it would be tempting.

    Honestly, I was shocked to see how consistent Byrd's numbers are over the years in various venues. But he would scare the bejeebies out of me start after start with his flyball tendencies in GAB and his salary is a little high for what I think he brings to the table.
    I'm hoping the days of pissing and moaning about salary for a playoff push are over.

  7. #21
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    What if the Phillies asked for the Lizard back? Wouldja do Gordon, then?
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  8. #22
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    I'm hoping the days of pissing and moaning about salary for a playoff push are over.
    $7.5 due Byrd in 2007 is my concern. That was why I originally looked him up, thinking he was on a one year deal. But he got two years at $14.5 M out of the Tribe, and that is not going to be easy to deal in the offseason. Byrd is obviously an upgrade over Milton and Mays, but I'm not sure at that price he is worth it. This is still a business, after all.
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  9. #23
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    I'm hoping the days of pissing and moaning about salary for a playoff push are over.
    I'm all for taking on salary for a playoff push (e.g. Gordon), but I'm not eager to see the Reds acquiring expensive pitchers I don't much like. If the Indians would do Byrd for Milton and "prospects" then I'd be game, but I REALLY wouldn't want to see the Reds married to Byrd and Milton for the next year and a half.
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  10. #24
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'm all for taking on salary for a playoff push (e.g. Gordon), but I'm not eager to see the Reds acquiring expensive pitchers I don't much like. If the Indians would do Byrd for Milton and "prospects" then I'd be game, but I REALLY wouldn't want to see the Reds married to Byrd and Milton for the next year and a half.
    I'm guessing Byrd in the NL again could put up numbers similar to his post-KC years. Upper 3s ERA, .730ish OPSA. In short, Harang numbers without the Ks.

    Byrd is not electric, but to say Byrd is infinitely better than Milton and Mays is an understatement. It's really unfair to class them together.

  11. #25
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by gm
    What if the Phillies asked for the Lizard back? Wouldja do Gordon, then?
    The only problem with trading the Lizard for a reliever is the team is already thin in the rotation. If the Reds lose his innings that could screw the 2006 pooch. Now, if someone wanted Ramirez for a starter upgrade, my answer would be hell yes.
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  12. #26
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    I'm guessing Byrd in the NL again could put up numbers similar to his post-KC years. Upper 3s ERA, .730ish OPSA. In short, Harang numbers without the Ks.

    Byrd is not electric, but to say Byrd is infinitely better than Milton and Mays is an understatement. It's really unfair to class them together.
    Byrd posted an .833 OPS against LHBs from 2003-2005. This year it's at .916. He's also a got fairly strong flyball tilt. He gets by thanks to being so tough on RHBs, but I'd expect him to get Miltoned a lot with the Reds and perform nowhere near as well as Harang.
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    $7.5 due Byrd in 2007 is my concern. That was why I originally looked him up, thinking he was on a one year deal. But he got two years at $14.5 M out of the Tribe, and that is not going to be easy to deal in the offseason. Byrd is obviously an upgrade over Milton and Mays, but I'm not sure at that price he is worth it. This is still a business, after all.
    Byrd is pitching well this season, certainly as good as he was previously with KC. he was worth $14.5M last offseason, there's no reason he's not worth it now. That fact that he's a good pitcher and signed next season at market rates probably makes him more marketable to the right team.

  14. #28
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Byrd posted an .833 OPS against LHBs from 2003-2005. This year it's at .916. He's also a got fairly strong flyball tilt. He gets by thanks to being so tough on RHBs, but I'd expect him to get Miltoned a lot with the Reds and perform nowhere near as well as Harang.
    Yeah, that's the knock I heard against Arroyo, too.

    NL offensive talent sucks logs.

  15. #29
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Yeah, that's the knock I heard against Arroyo, too.

    NL offensive talent sucks logs.
    I didn't have that knock on Arroyo. I have it big time on Byrd.
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  16. #30
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    Re: Flash Gordon?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I didn't have that knock on Arroyo. I have it big time on Byrd.
    Neither did I, but the stats said Arroyo got mashed by lefties.

    As far as Byrd is concerned, I look at his OPSA, not his OPSA against lefties exclusively. Moving from the second toughest division in baseball to one of the easiest (if not the easiest division--the East is still tougher offensively than this division) in baseball will certainly have a cheering effect on his overall numbers.

    Plus, he's a smart pitcher.

    But, really, my take on this isn't to falsely compare the guy to Milton or Harang, but rather to get a guy who can genuinely help without surrendering MLB talent to do it.

    The money crap someone else can worry about. I don't care, honestly. I just want to win.


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