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Thread: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

  1. #16
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    I don't think you can consider: Reyes, Wainwright, Duncan, or Brad Thompson prospects any longer as they've all had decent major league exposure. If the Cards are talking about dealing one of these players (the first two extremely doubtful, the last two doubtful) as a prospect, you might have the beginnings of a trade for Soriano. If you are not considering them as prospects, I don't know what kind of package you could put together for him. That leaves guys like Blake Hawksworth (injury prone and not producing much this year); Chris Lambert (talent, but not producing); and Carmen Cali as the remaining top talents, IMO, and even if you agreed to give all 3 of those prospects up (which would harmfully deplete your farm system), I still don't think it would be enough for Soriano.
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  3. #17
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    You guys forget who the Washington GM is. JimBo wouldn't know good, young pitching if it was in front of him.
    You've got to admit though, Jimbo easily won the Soraino trade which he was heavily mocked for in the offseason (Not calling you or anyone out, I don't remember who said what)..

    Wilkerson is only hitting 238/337/456 and Soriano is having an outstanding season.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  4. #18
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Brian Cashman's going to have something to say about Soriano's final destination before Jocketty gets his hands on him.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  5. #19
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    You've got to admit though, Jimbo easily won the Soraino trade which he was heavily mocked for in the offseason (Not calling you or anyone out, I don't remember who said what)..

    Wilkerson is only hitting 238/337/456 and Soriano is having an outstanding season.
    I remember that also.

  6. #20
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    You've got to admit though, Jimbo easily won the Soraino trade which he was heavily mocked for in the offseason (Not calling you or anyone out, I don't remember who said what)..

    Wilkerson is only hitting 238/337/456 and Soriano is having an outstanding season.
    Bowden is a natural foil anywhere Reds' fans hang out. I don't recall Bowden getting any more mocking for the Soriano deal than for the leather pants or the drinking.

    Bowden really hasn't proven anything with the soriano deal until he proves he can get a bonifide return for the guy. If he gets a package like he did for Denny Neagle, then he has blown it.

    Actually, with Soriano, Livan Hernandez, Jose Guillen, and possibly Tony Armas, Bowden better be doing his homework because he has the chips to really load up the Nationals' system. I just wonder how many five tool outfielders we see going his way.
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  7. #21
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball
    Bowden is a natural foil anywhere Reds' fans hang out. I don't recall Bowden getting any more mocking for the Soriano deal than for the leather pants or the drinking.
    .
    I recall it being laid on heavy. Bowden was supposedly an idiot because Wilkerson had a nice career OBP, was younger, and under control for 2 more years. Soriano was more expensive and a pending free agent. And there's was plenty of "Bowden is an idiot" talk when Soriano initially refused to go to the OF. I'm not saying Bowden is a god, he makes mistakes like everyone, but this move turned into a stroke of genius. Now he's got probably the most desirable hitter on the market at the trade deadline.. The guy is a hitting machine and can play LF or 2b in a pinch, and it's only a one year commitment.

    Now of course, Bowden might mess up the trade of Soriano for prospects, we'll have to wait and see. But it's not a given.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  8. #22
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball

    Bowden really hasn't proven anything with the soriano deal until he proves he can get a bonifide return for the guy.
    So you're saying what Soriano has done to this point in 2006 doesn't matter?
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  9. #23
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    It's not like Bowden had some kind of mysterious ability to see what Soriano was going to do this year. This has been Soriano's best season and there's no way anyone would have predicted it. I think it's a matter of Bowden seeing a player he always coveted and he went and got him and got lucky. I don't think it was a matter of him being a genius. Any GM can make a move that turns out well, it's making them that conssitently turn out well while making few that don't turn out well that's the mark of a good GM. Bowden has his share of good ones, but his other liabilites more than made up for his winning trades.
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  10. #24
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I recall it being laid on heavy. Bowden was supposedly an idiot because Wilkerson had a nice career OBP, was younger, and under control for 2 more years. Soriano was more expensive and a pending free agent. And there's was plenty of "Bowden is an idiot" talk when Soriano initially refused to go to the OF. I'm not saying Bowden is a god, he makes mistakes like everyone, but this move turned into a stroke of genius. Now he's got probably the most desirable hitter on the market at the trade deadline.. The guy is a hitting machine and can play LF or 2b in a pinch, and it's only a one year commitment.

    Now of course, Bowden might mess up the trade of Soriano for prospects, we'll have to wait and see. But it's not a given.
    Bowden is a genius and now has a trading chip at the deadline! Well except for the minor detail of his team being one of the few sellers, having the 4th worst record in baseball, being 12 under .500 and in last place in the NL East. But I digress

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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMo4Life
    .....then it must be a package of one of the Cardinals other many minor league pitching spects.
    "many"......

  12. #26
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    So you're saying what Soriano has done to this point in 2006 doesn't matter?
    Well, the Nationals are in last place and 14 games out of first. What do you want me to say, Soriano made a big difference in the Nationals? I really don't think the value of the trade can be measured until we see what Bowden gets for the guy.

    What Soriano has done so far matters only in his trade value. At the time Texas traded him, I believe the market did not favor the seller. Bowden was smart enough to see that and gambled on him hoping he would bring a big return in July. If he doesn't get a big return, Bowden failed in his plan in my opinion.

    By the way, Texas dumped Soriano's salary, his glove at second, and is in second place and one game out. I believe the Wilkerson return was secondary to their motives.
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  13. #27
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Cards just need to sign Reggie Taylor and they are set for anything Washington wants
    Go Gators!

  14. #28
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    This trade is highly unlikely to happen. St. Louis prides itself on defense and unless Soriano has recently been touched by the hand of god then defense isn't a strong suit.

    The next reason is they need to take what chips they have and turn them into starting pitching. Weaver could help that situation but it's unlikely he will. The third reason is that LaRussa and company need a semi-longterm solution at the COF positions and Soriano will ask for the moon and with his less than stellar defensive prowess it's not gonna happen.

    Look for them to target a David Dellucci or Kevin Mench if they go after a bat at all. Someone who is still reasonably priced and productive.
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  15. #29
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball
    Well, the Nationals are in last place and 14 games out of first. What do you want me to say, Soriano made a big difference in the Nationals? I really don't think the value of the trade can be measured until we see what Bowden gets for the guy.

    What Soriano has done so far matters only in his trade value. At the time Texas traded him, I believe the market did not favor the seller. Bowden was smart enough to see that and gambled on him hoping he would bring a big return in July. If he doesn't get a big return, Bowden failed in his plan in my opinion.

    By the way, Texas dumped Soriano's salary, his glove at second, and is in second place and one game out. I believe the Wilkerson return was secondary to their motives.
    So the performance of the team overall is the best indicator of the value Bowden obtained from the Soriano trade???? The Nationals were in the playoff hunt all the way til the end last year. In the offseason, Bowden picks up a guy who is doing exactly what that team needed offensively. Trouble for them is other aspects of their performance that made them good last year have let them down in 2006. Soriano is one of their few positives this year and like him or not, Bowden should be commended for making a good deal. What Soriano may bring in the next few weeks is only a sidebar to the Nats actual acquisition of the guy.

    Just curious, if the Reds don't make the playoffs, I guess the Arroyo trade is a failure in your mind?
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  16. #30
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    So the performance of the team overall is the best indicator of the value Bowden obtained from the Soriano trade???? The Nationals were in the playoff hunt all the way til the end last year. In the offseason, Bowden picks up a guy who is doing exactly what that team needed offensively. Trouble for them is other aspects of their performance that made them good last year have let them down in 2006. Soriano is one of their few positives this year and like him or not, Bowden should be commended for making a good deal. What Soriano may bring in the next few weeks is only a sidebar to the Nats actual acquisition of the guy.
    The guy's team is in last place after competing last year and you want me to commend the him for making a good deal? That's like telling the plumber he did a good job wrapping the pipe when it's still leaking. What is Bowden's job? It's to build a winning team. He'll have had Soriano's great bat for half a losing season. I'm not going to judge the trade until I see what return he gets for Soriano.

    A trade can't really be judged until time has tested its value. It's like the Bartolo Colon for Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Casey Blake trade a few years ago. Colon ended up with twenty wins for the season, but did the Expos make a good trade? They ended up trading Colon to the White Sox for El Duque, Rocky Biddle, and Jeff Leifer. In the long run they got a good half season from Colon but lost three outstanding young players.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    Just curious, if the Reds don't make the playoffs, I guess the Arroyo trade is a failure in your mind?
    Arroyo is signed for two more years after this one and is one of the reasons the Reds are in contention so that's apples and oranges.
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