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Thread: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

  1. #46
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Texas is getting a .317/.384/.520 line from its 2Bs with some defense thrown in.

    Wilkerson's been generally disappointing (and he's been part of a teamwide power outage), but I doubt the Rangers are sitting around wishing they had Soriano back in the fold. Chris Young, that's another story.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #47
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    On pace for 50 bombs doesn't surprise you...in that park....with that lineup?
    Not with the number of guys who are on pace for monster home run totals too. I wouldn't have even projected Pujols to have 30 bombs at the break, so I think there has to be a "curve" when looking at some of these numbers. Soriano is ahead of schedule, granted. But, he's on pace for almost 700 ab's batting leadoff and it's no secret that he possesses tremendous power.

  4. #48
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    This from Today's Tulsa World's "Farm systems graded" section. Not the foremost authority in anything sports related, but when the Cardinal homer hacks here come to this conclusion, it's safe to say it's been widely regarded that way for quite some time.....

    St. Louis: Only Memphis (AAA) has a losing record among the four full-season teams. RHP Anthony Reyes and OF Chris Duncan have been called up from Memphis and will make an impact in the majors, but several other top prospects have taken a step backwards. An exception is OF Colby Rasmus, recently promoted to Palm Beach (A) after batting .310 at Quad Cities. OF Terry Evans was among the minors' home run leaders when he was traded to the Angels. The Cards' ability to make more trades for big league help is restricted by a lack of thriving minor league prospects. Grade: C.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  5. #49
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball
    Yep, and Al Gore invented the internet.

    You can say it, but that doesn't make it true. You could say they'd be in first place if they'd had Alex Rodriguez playing shortstop instead of Michael Young, but hat would be ignoring the bigger picture. God gave us brain capacity beyond simple ground level analysis.

    The Rangers knew they'd have more trouble moving Soriano over the winter, but they went ahead and moved him because they wanted to free up cash to pursue front end of their rotation pitchers which turned out to be Millwood and Padilla. Would they be contending without Millwood and Padilla? No, and that is a call I'm willing to make.
    While I'll admit the Kinsler/Derosa combo has been surprisingly effective, Texas has received a .792 OPS out of its left fielders this season. Soriano would have upgraded that lineup one way or another.

    Vincente Padilla and Kevin Millwood have been league average pitchers for the Rangers. Instead of spending $10 million on Soriano, the Rangers spent $11 on two mediocre starters. I think you're giving them way too much credit.

    M2 is right about Chris Young. He would have helped that team more than Padilla and Millwood put together.
    Last edited by Johnny Footstool; 07-09-2006 at 05:38 PM.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  6. #50
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Vincente Padilla and Kevin Millwood have been league average pitchers for the Rangers. Instead of spending $10 million on Soriano, the Rangers spent $11 on two mediocre starters. I think you're giving them way too much credit.
    There's plenty of value in league average, particularly for a club that's spent the last several years with a rotation full of guys worse than that. Add Soriano and subtract Millwood and Padilla and fill those two rotation slots with who knows what, and what you'd have is a Rangers team largely resembling its good-hit no-pitch also-ran predecessors of the last half-decade.
    Not all who wander are lost

  7. #51
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed
    Add Soriano and subtract Millwood and Padilla and fill those two rotation slots with who knows what, and what you'd have is a Rangers team largely resembling its good-hit no-pitch also-ran predecessors of the last half-decade.
    Hmmm, sounds vaguely similar to someone else...just can't place it.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  8. #52
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed
    There's plenty of value in league average, particularly for a club that's spent the last several years with a rotation full of guys worse than that. Add Soriano and subtract Millwood and Padilla and fill those two rotation slots with who knows what, and what you'd have is a Rangers team largely resembling its good-hit no-pitch also-ran predecessors of the last half-decade.
    If they would have kept Soriano and Young instead of acquiring Millwood and Padilla, don't you think they'd be in better shape?

    Also, it wouldn't have been difficult for them to acquire Padilla's $4m salary AND keep both Soriano and Young.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  9. #53
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    On pace for 50 bombs doesn't surprise you...in that park....with that lineup?
    Yep, anyone who had Soriano pegged for the kind of numbers he has put up for that team in that stadium must also be getting a good read on next week's lotto numbers.

    Soriano has performed above expectations, not much question about that.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  10. #54
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    Yep, anyone who had Soriano pegged for the kind of numbers he has put up for that team in that stadium must also be getting a good read on next week's lotto numbers.

    Soriano has performed above expectations, not much question about that.
    Yep, the RH HR factor in RFK was a low 76.. with only 19 HR's by RH's all season.

    Soriano has 16 himself at home this season.

  11. #55
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    If they would have kept Soriano and Young instead of acquiring Millwood and Padilla, don't you think they'd be in better shape?
    I'm not so sure they would be in regards to this season.

    Millwood has been one of the unluckiest pitchers in the league this year, while Young has been the opposite.

    In 109 innings Young has 104 Ks to 38 BBs which is very good, but has also allowed 16 HRs. This while pitching half his games in Petco. A switch to Texas is just going to make things worse.

    In 110 innings Millwood has 75 Ks and 23 BBs while surrendering 10 HRs.

    For the rest of the season Millwood is the better bet to pitch better IMO.

  12. #56
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    I'm not so sure they would be in regards to this season.

    Millwood has been one of the unluckiest pitchers in the league this year, while Young has been the opposite.

    In 109 innings Young has 104 Ks to 38 BBs which is very good, but has also allowed 16 HRs. This while pitching half his games in Petco. A switch to Texas is just going to make things worse.

    In 110 innings Millwood has 75 Ks and 23 BBs while surrendering 10 HRs.

    For the rest of the season Millwood is the better bet to pitch better IMO.
    Chris Young has been incredible on the road this season (.96 WHIP, 2.24 ERA), so he hasn't really benefitted from Petco yet. And his K-rate is much higher than Millwood's, which makes him less dependent on BABIP.

    Millwood's HR rate is almost exactly at his norm (1 HR per 10 IP), so that's going to stay constant. Young had some serious gopherball problems in April and May, but he seems to have gotten it under control in June and July (3 HR in 43 IPs). I think his second half HR rate will be much better than his first half's.

    Plus Young costs $6 million less than Millwood.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  13. #57
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Plus Young costs $6 million less than Millwood.
    I was just talking about skill level for this season. If you are talking about who would you rather have as a player, Young would be the obvious pick because of age and salary. Young just wont keep pitching as good as it appears.

  14. #58
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    If they would have kept Soriano and Young instead of acquiring Millwood and Padilla, don't you think they'd be in better shape?

    Also, it wouldn't have been difficult for them to acquire Padilla's $4m salary AND keep both Soriano and Young.
    Well, that's not exactly the right question. The Rangers already upped the payroll from $55 million to $68 million this year, primarily earmarked to pitching upgrades, so it's probably not correct to say "oh, they could have spent more, no problem." Easy when it's not our money.

    The real problem is that the Rangers saved $6 million in the Soriano trade but took on about that much in the six-player deal involving Young and Adam Eaton. They could have had Soriano AND Young AND Millwood AND Padilla for what they're paying now, instead of Milwood, Padilla, Wilkerson and an injured Eaton, and they'd probably be leading the division.
    Not all who wander are lost

  15. #59
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Matty said the Cards had many pitching prospects. That's not true at all.
    That is true. The Cards do have a lot of pitching prospects. I didn't say they were all as good as Reyes and Wainwright, because they aren't. Mark McCormick is a guy that is on the same level as Wainwright is. A couple of years ago the Cardinals strength was pitching, and now they have better hitting spects. One reason is that their pitching spects such as Wainwright, Thompson, and Reyes are helping the Major League club. For years, everybody downgrades the Cardinals minor league system, and they are perceived as having no prospets. Everytime a trade is mentioned regarding the Cardinals, the mindset of most fans of opposing teams is that the Cardinals don't have anything to trade. I always am amazed that players seem to be overlooked by most when they are in the Cards system, but are recognized as being good players once they go to another team. The Cardinals have supposedly had the worst minor league system for the past several years. Although players such as Albert Pujols, Matt Morris, Dan Haren, Coco Crisp, Adam Wainwright, and Anthony Reyes among many others have come through the Cardinals system.

  16. #60
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Alfonso Soriano A Cardinal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMo4Life
    That is true. The Cards do have a lot of pitching prospects. I didn't say they were all as good as Reyes and Wainwright, because they aren't. Mark McCormick is a guy that is on the same level as Wainwright is. A couple of years ago the Cardinals strength was pitching, and now they have better hitting spects. One reason is that their pitching spects such as Wainwright, Thompson, and Reyes are helping the Major League club. For years, everybody downgrades the Cardinals minor league system, and they are perceived as having no prospets. Everytime a trade is mentioned regarding the Cardinals, the mindset of most fans of opposing teams is that the Cardinals don't have anything to trade. I always am amazed that players seem to be overlooked by most when they are in the Cards system, but are recognized as being good players once they go to another team. The Cardinals have supposedly had the worst minor league system for the past several years. Although players such as Albert Pujols, Matt Morris, Dan Haren, Coco Crisp, Adam Wainwright, and Anthony Reyes among many others have come through the Cardinals system.
    Yes, I guess it is true that the Cards have many pitching prospects, however, quantity doesn't equal quality. Mark McCormick is on the same level as Wainwright?!? Dude, stop being such a homer. McCormick is almost 23 years old and has a 1.50 WHIP in low-A. How ridiculous. Jeez.
    I miss Adam Dunn.


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