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Thread: 135 pitches by Harang?

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    135 pitches by Harang?


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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Stupid managerial decision in my opinion.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Jerry Narron has had better weeks.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    As was mentioned over the in game thread, even if your bullpen is a black-hole of suckyness it doesn't make any sense to ride your two best horses so hard that they (potenally) get winded in the 2nd half or a strech run.

    It's more of an indictment of the bullpen that he didn't go to it last night, however, that's an issue for The Kriv to work out.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Narron has left Harang in the game too long several times this season. It cost the Reds the game last night.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup
    Narron has left Harang in the game too long several times this season. It cost the Reds the game last night.
    I can't imamgine that anyone was calling for Harang to be pulled with a shut out going in the 7th last night. After he gave up the 2 run HR, the game was lost. Posters would have hung Narron if he had pulled Harang before the HR.

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig
    I can't imamgine that anyone was calling for Harang to be pulled with a shut out going in the 7th last night. After he gave up the 2 run HR, the game was lost. Posters would have hung Narron if he had pulled Harang before the HR.
    as soon as the ball went over the wall, Narron should have marched his end out to the mound and took Harang out.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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    Curveballer Candy Cummings's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    According to the Marc Lancaster blog they are going to give him an extra day's rest coming out of the break. Obviously, high pitch counts remain a concern. However, when you have someone pitching well and with our bullpen, you certainly do have to win games, especially when you've lost six of seven.
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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Narron's management of the pitching staff has reached obsessive/compulsive status.

    Yes..the bullpen is not good (yes, it's bad)...but the bullpen ERA is NOT infinity. Its 5.14. That's the same as Milton's and better than whoever the worst starter has been (Claussen, Williams, Mays).

    And what's the ERA of our "better'' pitchers (Ramirez, Harang, Arroyo) in the middle innings or when the begin to tire? Forget about Mays and company...

    But Narron insists in making our starters go 6, 7 or 8 even when they've lost it...confident that the offense will get him out of the hole they eventually create.

    They hit for themselves in high leverage situations, behind in the score, etc.

    When Narron DOES go to the bully...he sets them up to fail, using recently injured pitchers in tough situations, LOOGYs against righties, old guys no matter what...etc.

    The lack of work doesn't help the bully either. Instead of pitching 2 or 3 times a week, some of the guys (Belisle?) pitch once every two or three weeks. No one can be sharp that way.

    Last night was the last straw. There was NO justification for sending Harang out in the eighth down by two. There was a 5% chance of winning at that point. You don't mess with meal tickets like Harang, with such long odds. It's like undergoing life threatening surgery to whiten your teeth.

    I'm officially now in the FIRE NARRON camp.
    Last edited by oneupper; 07-09-2006 at 09:56 AM.
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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper

    I'm officially now in the FIRE NARRON camp.
    Don't get your hopes up

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    Moderator Tommyjohn25's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper
    I'm officially now in the FIRE NARRON camp.
    You want to fire the manager when this team is 3 games out of 1st place halfway through the season?
    Benzinger backing and calling! And the 1990 world championship series belongs to the Cincinnati Reds!

  12. #12
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    not that i'm for narron or anything, but back in the golden era, didn't they pitch that much and still be fine for the rest of the season?

    obviously he wouldn't have left aaron in without his consent. and if aaron thought he could pitch, then he's gunna pitch.

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    Member LINEDRIVER's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by ghettochild
    not that i'm for narron or anything, but back in the golden era, didn't they pitch that much and still be fine for the rest of the season?

    obviously he wouldn't have left aaron in without his consent. and if aaron thought he could pitch, then he's gunna pitch.
    Yes, that happened regularly back in the day and that was with four-man pitching rotations.

    *

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by ghettochild
    not that i'm for narron or anything, but back in the golden era, didn't they pitch that much and still be fine for the rest of the season?

    obviously he wouldn't have left aaron in without his consent. and if aaron thought he could pitch, then he's gunna pitch.
    Yes they did. And after a few years they would come down with a sore shoulder or a sore elbow and could not pitch any more. Back then they did not know they tore their rotator cuff or tore a tendon in their elbow. Aaron is still a young pitcher. 135 pitches may not have an effect on him on his next start or the start after that or in September. But it may give him problems down the road.

    The last person a manager wants to ask on whether a pitcher should stay in the game is the pitcher. Of course he is going to want to stay in. Even if he has nothing left he is going to lie about it to the manager so he can stay in there. I completely understand why Narron did what he did. I certainly do not think that he would have left him in there if he would have had even one pitcher down there who he trusted to get Francour. Leaving him in after that was just Narron not wanting a 3 run deficit to become a 5, 6, 7 run deficit.
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    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: 135 pitches by Harang?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Aaron is still a young pitcher.
    I'll disagree on that. Harang is 28 years old and has been taking his turn in the rotation for a few seasons now. He's as in-his-prime as it gets, physically. His career isn't about development anymore, it's about maintenance and refinement.

    Having said that, I'm finished playing devil's advocate on the subject -- after we went scoreless in the top of the eighth and cut our win expectancy down to 5% or so, as someone else mentioned in the thread, it should have been turned over to the bullpen. I can live with a pitch-count spike every great now and then but it should be reserved for a truly meaningful situation and this wasn't.
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