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View Poll Results: Buy or sell?

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  • Buy, even if the Reds aren't that good, no else is either

    58 29.44%
  • Sell, baby, sell, the slide has started and it's not going to stop

    30 15.23%
  • Buy/sell, sell vets and prospects to acquire young guys who can help in 2006 and beyond

    109 55.33%
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Thread: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

  1. #46
    Member schroomytunes's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    I think we are going to see a move after the all-star break. I feel that Krivsky will not give up too early and he will come out of the gate hard and fast. I'm willing to bet the only hold up right now is Claussen's DL stint. If I'm a betting man I think this is the deal that's going to go down:

    Reds trade: Brandon Claussen, Ty Pelland, Chris Denorfia

    Royals trade: Mark Redman and Elmer Dessens with no cash involved.

    Redman fills the 5th spot, and Elmer shores up middle relief. Thoughts?

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  3. #47
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan
    Competing is part art, part science, and part luck.

    Compared to previous years, luck has actually been making an occasional appearance in Cincinnati this year. At the very least, Reds voodoo dolls haven't been the recipient of many pins so far in 2006. Most importantly (he said knocking on wood), the team has been relatively healthy. The bats have been thumping the ball about like we thought they should. Arroyo & Harang have been workhorses.

    I also like the idea of buying from the psychological perspective. It's been a while since the guys wearing Reds uniforms have been playing meaningful games in August. It's been a while since the folks in River City have had a reason to go to the park in August in September. I'd like to see the FO show some signs that they're willing & able to go get some help if the team can make a go of it over the first half of the season.

    With a move or two in the next couple of weeks, I don't see the Reds being that much different from, say, the Florida Marlins of 2003. That's a team that caught lightning in a bottle. The 2006 Reds actually have a couple of bottles, and there are some grey clouds above. It's time to get out in the field and do a rain dance to get the skies to open up. We've been holed up in the storm cellar for long enough.

    Good points.

    Though I keep coming back to there being only two pitchers on the team whom I actually want to see taking the mound. The team may have ridden the rest of the staff as far as it can go.

    Anyway, what I'd like to see the team avoid is Shawn Estes, Brian Moehler types of acquisitions. IMO, if they go for it, it shouldn't be done in the conventional manner (e.g. calling all vets).
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  4. #48
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    it could only work if you can identify undervalued/underutilized talent. Try getting players that seemed to have fallen out of favor with their current franchise. Players like Davis(cleveland), Floyd(Philly), Wuertz(Chicago), etc.
    Larue(Cin).

    Whichever route Krivsky takes (vets or kids), I want to see true talent come back. I don't want to see a Jimbo-like desperate grab at the deadline (M2's Shawn Estes, Brian Moehler types). Either get studs or future studs or don't get anything.

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  5. #49
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup
    Wouldn't Radke have 10/5 rights?
    Yes, bet money he'd turn the deal down.
    Go Gators!

  6. #50
    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Good points.

    Though I keep coming back to there being only two pitchers on the team whom I actually want to see taking the mound. The team may have ridden the rest of the staff as far as it can go.
    I think the Lizard Man gives the team a solid 3rd starter. Or at least as solid as just about any other NL team that's not playing in New York or Houston. I think that Belisle and Coffey can fill roles in the bullpen well enough to bridge the gap to a hammer at the back of the bullpen. If the Reds can find that hammer, then they have just as many bullets in their holster as almost any other team in the NL.

    Admittedly, that's a pretty big "If". If there's no hammer to be found in the next 3 weeks, then 2 more solid if not spectacular arms in the bullpen is what has to be on the wish list for the stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Anyway, what I'd like to see the team avoid is Shawn Estes, Brian Moehler types of acquisitions. IMO, if they go for it, it shouldn't be done in the conventional manner (e.g. calling all vets).
    Preach on. If those types of arms are the best/only options that are available at this summer's swap meet, then hold pat and go with what you got in-house. Throwing one of those arms into the mix is subtraction by addition.

    (Unless the deal involves moving one Eric Milton.)

    Then over the off-season, it's time to move an OF bat (Kearns) for some more pitching.

    I have to admit, though, the fact that Redread is agreeing with me has me a little spooked.

    Edit: Speaking of Houston up above...I tuned into the 10th inning of last night's Cards-Astros tilt. Houston would probably like another bat to help Berkman carry the offensive load. It'd take some cajones, but maybe the Astros make sense as a trading partner. They seem to have some decent bullpen arms. If not in the next few weeks, then definitely over the offseason I think it makes sense to see what kind of pitching they'd be willing to give up to put Austin Kearns in right field.
    Last edited by 15fan; 07-10-2006 at 04:01 PM.

  7. #51
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan
    Edit: Speaking of Houston up above...I tuned into the 10th inning of last night's Cards-Astros tilt. Houston would probably like another bat to help Berkman carry the offensive load. It'd take some cajones, but maybe the Astros make sense as a trading partner. They seem to have some decent bullpen arms. If not in the next few weeks, then definitely over the offseason I think it makes sense to see what kind of pitching they'd be willing to give up to put Austin Kearns in right field.
    I agree, Houston has a desperate need for a capable OF bat. If they'd put Jason Hirsh on the table then I'd be all for sending Kearns their way.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  8. #52
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I like the basic idea, though Gavin Floyd has fallen out of favor with his current franchise for all the right reasons.
    as has Davis, I still have no clue about Wuertz other than the fact the Cubs spent all that money on Howry/Eyre/Dumpster.

    The point is the Reds have to identify their own set of players and figure out if there is a way to get them without giving up a lot (the answer in the end may be "no".
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #53
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Man whoever created that prozac drug rep threat was right... Redzone is on abandon ship... i may invest in some life vests... geez

    as for trading arroyo, this is an awful idea... at his career norms the guy would still be a quality #3 starter... we need pitching and dealing him would only make things worse. Trading him would not only be conceding this season but the next 2... his mediocrity is still a improvement over 05, i understand selling high buying low but trading arroyo is a step backwards for the next 2 1/2 seasons... and he had 2 bad starts... relax guys, maybe the break will be good for him and he'll shape back into form.

    People say players are overachieving... but are they really?
    I can see the arguemnt on Arroyo and Ross... Harang isnt doing THAT much better than last year. On the flip side of ross, LaRue is underachieving. You could make the arguement LaRue is going to come to career norms and u should deal ross... that is a better plan than dealing arroyo...
    Lopez is underachieving. I dont think Kearns is overachieving, just getting his career on line. 1 Could even argue Dunn is underachieiving....


    I am well aware of the porous bullpen and we obviously need to shore that up. Hopefully coffey will return to even a mediocore reliever and Guarardo can be effective. i think belisle can be a serviceable a reliever. We really need a solid closer or set up man (i guess for Eddie G) and another good arm and we would be ok. I think the 5 spot in the rotation could be filled by Germano or any other random arms we throw out there... realistically look at the picture

    we are 4 games out of 1st
    1.5 games out of the wild card... do u really want to bail now...

    I think the past has made us too much of pessimists

  10. #54
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    I suppose this has already been said, but I agree that we should explore trades that help us in 2006 without screwing us in years to come. In other words, players that might help us win in 2006 but definatley will help us in 2007 and beyond.

    The last thing we need, now that we have some intelligent people at the head of the ship, is to brashly trade a player and not get enough in return. Or to over pay for a short term rental player. We have a good leadership team, some good young tallents that could turn into great young tallents and a nice cast of supporting players that can be traded or plugged in as needed.

    I think we can build something special in Cincinnati if we make the right moves and don't panic or go overboard in trying to win now at the expense of tomorow.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  11. #55
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by The_jbh
    Man whoever created that prozac drug rep threat was right... Redzone is on abandon ship... i may invest in some life vests... geez

    as for trading arroyo, this is an awful idea... at his career norms the guy would still be a quality #3 starter... we need pitching and dealing him would only make things worse. Trading him would not only be conceding this season but the next 2... his mediocrity is still a improvement over 05, i understand selling high buying low but trading arroyo is a step backwards for the next 2 1/2 seasons... and he had 2 bad starts... relax guys, maybe the break will be good for him and he'll shape back into form.

    People say players are overachieving... but are they really?
    I can see the arguemnt on Arroyo and Ross... Harang isnt doing THAT much better than last year. On the flip side of ross, LaRue is underachieving. You could make the arguement LaRue is going to come to career norms and u should deal ross... that is a better plan than dealing arroyo...
    Lopez is underachieving. I dont think Kearns is overachieving, just getting his career on line. 1 Could even argue Dunn is underachieiving....


    I am well aware of the porous bullpen and we obviously need to shore that up. Hopefully coffey will return to even a mediocore reliever and Guarardo can be effective. i think belisle can be a serviceable a reliever. We really need a solid closer or set up man (i guess for Eddie G) and another good arm and we would be ok. I think the 5 spot in the rotation could be filled by Germano or any other random arms we throw out there... realistically look at the picture

    we are 4 games out of 1st
    1.5 games out of the wild card... do u really want to bail now...

    I think the past has made us too much of pessimists
    Pessimists? How about realists.


    -We started 19-8. We are 26-36 since. I don't care how weak the NL central is, you aren't going to catch anyone playing 10 games under .500.

    -We had a custom made stretch in the schedule right before the break to make a move and spit the motherlovin bit. 13 straight games against teams who at the time had a combined .420 win %. We promptly went 4-9 against the softest part of our schedule. Truely impressive.

    -We are "only" 4 games back in the weakest division in baseball. Think about it. The Cards are falling apart, lost 9 out of 10 at one point, had the highest team ERA in the NL for June, injuries, a 3 man lineup, all that and we couldn't catch them. In fact they widened the lead. Thats just sad folks.

    -The limited success this team has enjoyed was a result of Arroyo, Harang, Coffey and ER pitching well above norm. They are coming back to earth and the pen is still be a disaster. I fail to see the brightness in that situation.

    -Go buy help? 1 Starter and 3 bullpen arms in the middle of the season with at least a dozen other teams after the same thing. Does anyone here seriously think thats going to happen? Better yet has anyone even considered the staggering price a team would have to pay, if that kind of haul were for sale? We simply don't have the chips, I don't think anyone does.

    A realist is just an optamist who has been around for a while. Realistically, we can all do our best Don Meredith impersonations and start singing "Turn out the lights....."

  12. #56
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by Centralchamps05
    Can we trade the one who makes the lineup call and other in game decisions for a bucket of used balls? And then bring back the one who brought us to the promised land the last time?
    Amen, praise the Lord
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  13. #57
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by schroomytunes
    I think we are going to see a move after the all-star break. I feel that Krivsky will not give up too early and he will come out of the gate hard and fast. I'm willing to bet the only hold up right now is Claussen's DL stint. If I'm a betting man I think this is the deal that's going to go down:

    Reds trade: Brandon Claussen, Ty Pelland, Chris Denorfia

    Royals trade: Mark Redman and Elmer Dessens with no cash involved.

    Redman fills the 5th spot, and Elmer shores up middle relief. Thoughts?
    I really like that deal.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  14. #58
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I agree, Houston has a desperate need for a capable OF bat. If they'd put Jason Hirsh on the table then I'd be all for sending Kearns their way.
    I got Houston being a major player for Washington's Soriano. They have several young arms and they could put a package together to the one two years ago that acquired them Carlos Beltran for the stretch run.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  15. #59
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D
    Pessimists? How about realists.


    -We started 19-8. We are 26-36 since. I don't care how weak the NL central is, you aren't going to catch anyone playing 10 games under .500.

    -We had a custom made stretch in the schedule right before the break to make a move and spit the motherlovin bit. 13 straight games against teams who at the time had a combined .420 win %. We promptly went 4-9 against the softest part of our schedule. Truely impressive.

    -We are "only" 4 games back in the weakest division in baseball. Think about it. The Cards are falling apart, lost 9 out of 10 at one point, had the highest team ERA in the NL for June, injuries, a 3 man lineup, all that and we couldn't catch them. In fact they widened the lead. Thats just sad folks.

    -The limited success this team has enjoyed was a result of Arroyo, Harang, Coffey and ER pitching well above norm. They are coming back to earth and the pen is still be a disaster. I fail to see the brightness in that situation.

    -Go buy help? 1 Starter and 3 bullpen arms in the middle of the season with at least a dozen other teams after the same thing. Does anyone here seriously think thats going to happen? Better yet has anyone even considered the staggering price a team would have to pay, if that kind of haul were for sale? We simply don't have the chips, I don't think anyone does.

    A realist is just an optamist who has been around for a while. Realistically, we can all do our best Don Meredith impersonations and start singing "Turn out the lights....."
    We just go Guardado three games ago so why not see if it helps the bullpen woes? I still think we need another setup man and a fifth starter.

    You're trying to regenerate interest in Cincinnati Reds baseball. Go ahead and pull the plug when you're within five games of the division lead and 1.5 games out of the wildcard and see how many fannies are sitting in those seats come August and September.

    Time to put this losing mentality out of our heads. Sooner or later you have to look at the glass being half full instead of half empty.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  16. #60
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    Re: Time to make the call: Are the Reds buyers or sellers

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D
    Pessimists? How about realists.


    -We started 19-8. We are 26-36 since. I don't care how weak the NL central is, you aren't going to catch anyone playing 10 games under .500.

    -We had a custom made stretch in the schedule right before the break to make a move and spit the motherlovin bit. 13 straight games against teams who at the time had a combined .420 win %. We promptly went 4-9 against the softest part of our schedule. Truely impressive.

    -We are "only" 4 games back in the weakest division in baseball. Think about it. The Cards are falling apart, lost 9 out of 10 at one point, had the highest team ERA in the NL for June, injuries, a 3 man lineup, all that and we couldn't catch them. In fact they widened the lead. Thats just sad folks.

    -The limited success this team has enjoyed was a result of Arroyo, Harang, Coffey and ER pitching well above norm. They are coming back to earth and the pen is still be a disaster. I fail to see the brightness in that situation.

    -Go buy help? 1 Starter and 3 bullpen arms in the middle of the season with at least a dozen other teams after the same thing. Does anyone here seriously think thats going to happen? Better yet has anyone even considered the staggering price a team would have to pay, if that kind of haul were for sale? We simply don't have the chips, I don't think anyone does.

    A realist is just an optamist who has been around for a while. Realistically, we can all do our best Don Meredith impersonations and start singing "Turn out the lights....."
    you can go the other way on the record too.. since June 8th, the last month, we were 8-20... thats horrific but can you really expect the team to play that awful the rest of the season. Can you honestly look at the roster and think we are going to be that bad? So essentially for 2 months we were 37-24. I dont think we will play that well, but we don't have to. This team hit a serious rut this month for many reasons but I have a hard time believing we are going to play .286 ball the rest of the season. One could even argue the 1st 2 months of the season is a better sample of our potential.

    We have another half month atleast till we seriously have to make this decison but if the decison had to be made today I still think you have to buy. 1.5 games out of the wild card for petes sakes and you want to call it a season?

    I don't expect Kriv to poop out relievers, Im sure he would have allready done that, but I think we could realistically aquire one starter and one reliever.

    Milton is finally healthy and pitching atleast semi well. I would say his current performance is way closer to his career norms than last season. I love it when some of you all point to previous production or lack there of to support an arguement for a player slumping but when someone is producing those type of things are ignored.

    One thing you have to point out about this 8-20 skid was this team never gave up. I can think of 4 games this past week, hell the whole Brewers series, that we came from behind to what should have been a win except the bullpen blew it. This team has HEART and CHEMISTRY, two intangibles many of the teams we are in a race with for the WC don't have. IMO we have one of the best line ups in baseball, and great depth. Pitching is obviously our problem.

    Arroyo at his career norms if thats what he is returning to is still a serviceable #3 starter. Harang has been doing only slightly inferior to what he has this season the past 2 years, I don't buy the arguement he is overachieving. Claussen is massively underachieving. Milton I think is returning to career norms.

    Wilson and Balfour are returning soon. Who knows, maybe Wilson can give us an adequate #5 starter? Balfour can't be anyworse than what we have. Hopefulyl Guarardo gives us even a servicable arm and Coffey can return to form as a set up man.

    Call me an optimist or nonrealist or whatever you may. All I know is a moved to Cincinnati in 1992 basically just in time for Cincinnati sports to go to the crapper and I was too young and ignorant to avoid being a fan. And I have been an optimist concerning the Bengals and the Reds since then every season and finally the Bengals are rewarding my loyalty. Why can't it be the Reds too. And lets be honest, looking at the Class half full is much more fun as a fan.


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