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View Poll Results: Do you like the Kearns/Lopez/Bray trade

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  • Yes, I love this trade for the Reds

    84 32.68%
  • No, it was a bad trade for the Reds

    67 26.07%
  • Undecided right now

    106 41.25%
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Thread: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

  1. #1
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Wanted a quick poll to see how the board felt.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #2
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Too early to say, but last night's game convinced me we need to do something to hold on to games we should be winning. It's growing on me.

  4. #3
    * Bat Votto Second * goreds2's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Yes, pitching is the name of the game.
    * Attended the 1990 and 2010 Reds Division clinchers *

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Wanted a quick poll to see how the board felt.
    I'm somewhere between loving it and hating it. I can't make up my mind. I don't think it's near as bad as some people would like you to believe.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  6. #5
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    No. I don't like the idea of trading two young startering players for two middle relievers an A ball player and two spare parts.

    If we had traded Kearns and Lopez to Detroit and received Guillen and Zumaya back, that's one thing; but that's not what happened here.

  7. #6
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    The Reds overpaid in terms in of talent. How well it works out will likely depend on Denorfia and how quickly they unload Clayton.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  8. #7
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    The Reds overpaid in terms in of talent. How well it works out will likely depend on Denorfia and how quickly they unload Clayton.
    How well Denofria does is totally independent of the trade. You don't overpay in a deal to clear a space, IMO.

  9. #8
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds
    How well Denofria does is totally independent of the trade. You don't overpay in a deal to clear a space, IMO.
    maybe not but some of this trade will be judged by how well this team performs the remainder of the season, Denorfia is likely to have a large part in that since the deal cleared a spot for him.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #9
    fan EddieMilner's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    I don't think the Reds overpaid, I think the issue is that pitching is extremely expensive at this point of the season. To get good pitching (with 20 teams still in it), is extremely difficult.

    The Reds had a surplus of offense and needed help in the bullpen and on defense. I think it was a good trade, and it makes this team better.

  11. #10
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    the Reds could not afford to wait. The front office is hell bent on winning this year, they had to make a move like this to take a shot. That is why I can't be totally against it.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  12. #11
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    I voted "hate it". The Reds blew all their trading chips for the near future on this deal. They WAY overpaid. Kearns or Lopez (plus Wagner) should've been enough to get this deal done.

    Wayne just paid 20k over list price for a 4 wheel drive because the weather man is predicting snow tonight. He didn't look at the big picture. This move is going to cripple the franchise longterm, even if Bray and Maj pitch well.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #12
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Mark me down for loving it.

    1. We got 2 bullpen arms ages 26 and 23, and they both throw hard and have out pitches. That's a foreign concept for our bullpen.
    2. We had an excess of OF. Of Kearns/Dunn/Griffey, Kearns was the easiest and most feasible to move. Hope you do well in the show, #19.
    3. Lopez is a defensive blackhole. Offensively this year, he's showing last year was an outlier. Royce Clayton won't be on the roster next year. Hopefully we move Phillips over to SS, or else this trade kinda confuses me. Harris is a glorified role/back up IF, so he's not our future 2B.
    4. We cleared up some money to either use now to make another move before the deadline, or we have more money to spend in the offseason.

    Yesterday's trade most logically triggered the domino effect that is the new Cincinnati Reds. Let's see where we're at at opening day 2007 and go from there.

  14. #13
    Member jesusfan's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    I really liked this trade because obviously it makes our bullpen alot better, it's not everyday you see a 23 year old kid come up and throw scoreless innings in relief, trust me... Bray has filthy stuff, everyone will come to love him...
    I also liked the trade because Denorfia is hitting .347 in AAA, those numbers scream "GIVE ME A CHANCE" I strongly feel he'll be a .290-.300 hitter in the majors... Slot him in RIght with Freel, feel the SS void with Clayton (guys he has 22 Doubles this year, he isnt that bad), Castro(Defensive wiz), and even Aurilia... Even though Phillips will move there in the offseason... I like our line-up alot still, defintely above-average...
    1.Denorfia/Freel-RF
    2.Phillips-2nd
    3.Griffey Jr-CF
    4.Encarnacion-3rd
    5.Dunn-LF
    6.Hatteberg/Aurilia-1st
    7.Ross-C
    8.Clayton/Castro-SS
    9.Pitcher
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

  15. #14
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    An ESPN take on the deal - Keith Law (Before joining ESPN, Law spent 4½ years with the Toronto Blue Jays as a Special Assistant to the General Manager)

    Do you think Jim Bowden took a little pleasure in thoroughly robbing the organization that fired him in 2003? If not, perhaps he should, because he just pushed the Reds to the back of the NL playoff queue, and in the process picked up three players who entered the Reds' organization while he was their GM.

    The Nationals were widely expected to be sellers in the July trade market, and that may still come to pass, but in this deal, they took on more salary than they gave up. In exchange for a talented left-handed relief prospect and three spare parts, the Nationals just added an above-average corner outfielder, an above-average shortstop, and a talented right-handed relief prospect. Whether they choose to keep Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez or move them for younger talent, the Nationals won this deal in a rout.

    Kearns frustrates a lot of people inside the game because of the frequency he racks up strikeouts. Look instead at what Kearns does well: plus power, plus patience, and plus defense in right with a good arm. He'll strike out a lot and may not always hit for average, but he's an above-average player in an outfield corner, and the Nationals have him under control through the end of 2008. He's very similar to Brad Wilkerson, but with the added sheen of having served as a Red while Bowden ran that club.

    Lopez is in the same service-time class as Kearns, meaning that he too is eligible for free agency after 2008. Lopez is having a down year after his breakthrough in 2005, an All-Star caliber season during which he poked 23 homers and hit for average with a few walks, a few steals and erratic defense at short. Lopez is an athletic player who has above-average raw power and a good arm, but his makeup has always been an open question. Given the complete lack of anything resembling a big-league shortstop in the Washington system, however, Lopez is an immediate and substantial upgrade, and it's a good gamble that he'll return at least most of the way to his 2005 performance.

    Ryan Wagner is a throw-in, which is a major fall from grace for a guy selected in the first round in 2003 and rushed right to the majors. Wagner had the best strikeout rate in Division I in his junior year at the University of Houston, but his command has been awful in the pros, partly the result of a slinging delivery that puts a lot of strain on his shoulder. Still, he has a plus fastball and a plus slider that can get a little sweepy when he gets around it; it's worth a shot to see if a change of scenery will help.

    The jewel in the deal for the Reds is Bill Bray, who was highly touted as a first-round pick in 2004. Bray has an out-pitch slider with a hard, late break to go with an average fastball and good control. He closed in college and should develop into a setup man in the majors, but the odds of his doing so this year (his debut season in the majors) aren't great. He also has a history of back trouble, which limited him to just 40 innings in 2005.

    The real problem here for Cincinnati is that the other players they acquired just aren't any good. Royce Clayton was once a defensive whiz who would hit just enough to be a contributor, but his offense is so bad today that he makes Rafael Belliard look like Cal Ripken at the plate. Since the start of the 2000 season, Clayton has hit .258/.313/.369. And his defensive abilities have declined, much as you would expect they would for a player moving through his late 30s. As a glove off the bench acquired at no cost, Clayton is still a questionable use of a spot on the 25-man roster, but if the Reds intend to give him any of the playing time freed up by the trade of Lopez, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

    Gary Majewski has two average pitches in his fastball and slider, but no real out pitch, no weapon to use against left-handed batters, and below-average control. He has moderate sink on his fastball, which is important in Cincinnati's home park, but isn't enough to make him more than an 11th or 12th man on their staff. Brendan Harris is a utility player who isn't good defensively and who has never had much patience at the plate; he's a 4-A guy who won't find playing time in Cincinnati with Ryan Freel, Rich Aurilia, Brandon Phillips, Juan Castro, and now Clayton all on the roster.

    The Reds' apparent strategy here -- trading some of their offensive depth for pitching help -- is sensible, but their specific choices here make no sense. I don't see any way in which trading two of the top 50 hitters in the league for questionable relievers helps the Reds. The most charitable analysis would say that they've acquired 50-60 better bullpen innings at the cost of 400-450 good plate appearances, but given the volatility of reliever performance and Majewski's wildness, there's a good chance that the Reds won't see any benefit in their pen as a result of this deal. Had the Reds traded some spare parts or even good prospects for Majewski and Bray, I could understand it, but they have probably now taken the league's second- or third-best offense and made it merely average.

    The Nationals, on the other hand, acquired a lot more talent than they gave up, and in doing so acquired the trade's top two players, both of whom are under control through the end of 2008. Washington can go in two directions. The Nats can keep Kearns and Lopez with an eye toward contending in the next two years, which would require a lot more work. The alternative is to deal one or both of the players to try to acquire younger players whom they'd control beyond 2008; given their paltry farm system and the fact that the Mets look like they'll be a powerhouse over the next few seasons, dealing Kearns and Lopez -- both of whom would be among the most coveted players in the July trade market if they're made available again -- would be a sensible course of action.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #15
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Quick poll: Do you like the Kearns/Bray trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    Yesterday's trade most logically triggered the domino effect that is the new Cincinnati Reds. Let's see where we're at at opening day 2007 and go from there.
    I posted a thread yesterday about the Lee May trade which brought over Joe Morgan. It was ironic given what happened yesterday, but one poster noted that Bob Howsam recognized that his team had been assembled for old Crosley Field, he began with that trade to build a team for Riverfront Stadium.

    I wonder if this is the beginning of such a "sea change" as well. Only time will tell.


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