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Thread: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

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    Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Wow. Huge news, and unprecedented. Also very bad for Fiorentina and Lazio and even Milan, who got to stay in Serie A, was docked 15 points and none of the teams can play in European competitions this year. Great news for the bottom 3 teams in serie A - they won't be relegated. The talent that will hit the market from these teams will be incredible.
    Here's the BBC's story:


    Italian trio relegated to Serie B

    AC Milan, Fiorentina, Juventus and Lazio were punished
    Serie A sides Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina have been demoted to the second division for their involvement in Italy's match-fixing scandal.
    Juventus were also stripped of their last two Serie A titles and had 30 points deducted, meaning they are likely to stay down for two seasons.

    AC Milan will stay in Serie A but will start the season docked 15 points.

    All are barred from playing in Europe - Juventus, Milan and Fiorentina in the Champions League; Lazio the Uefa Cup.

    Lazio were penalised seven league points while Fiorentina suffered a 12-point penalty.

    Inter, Roma, Chievo and Palermo, who finished third, fifth, seventh and eighth, are in line to take the places of the penalised clubs in next season's Champions League.

    Lecce, Messina, and Treviso will avoid relegation to Serie B and keep their places in the top flight as a result of the verdict.

    But all four penalised clubs hit out at the verdict and it is expected they will appeal.

    They have three days to appeal to the Federal Court, but they may find they will run out of time to rescue their European places regardless of the outcome of any appeal because the deadline for entry is only 11 days away.

    CLUB PUNISHMENTS
    Juventus
    Relegated to Serie B
    30-point deduction for next season
    Stripped of 2005 and 2006 titles
    Out of 2006-07 Champions League
    Five-year ban for ex-general manager Luciano Moggi
    Five-year ban for ex-chief executive Antonio Giraudo

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AC Milan:
    Deducted 15 points next season
    Out of 2006-07 Champions League
    One-year ban for vice-president Adriano Galliani
    Club official Leonardo Meani banned for three years and six months

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fiorentina:
    Relegated to Serie B
    12-point deduction next season
    Out of 2006-07 Champions League
    President Andrea Della Valle banned for three years and six months
    Four-year ban for honorary president Diego Della Valle

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lazio:
    Relegated to Serie B
    Out of 2006-07 Uefa Cup
    7-point deduction next season
    Three-year ban for president Claudio Lotito

    The FIGC (Italian football's governing body) must hand its European counterpart Uefa the lists of teams that will be involved in its competitions by 25 July.

    Juventus president Giovanni Cobolli Gigli said: "This verdict is unheard of. We expected a balanced sentence not only in form but in substance, our expectations were different ones.

    "We could have expected relegation to the second division but to be also handed a 30-point deduction is almost like relegation to the third division. We will appeal."

    A statement on Fiorentina's official site called the decision "profoundly unjust".

    It added: "Fiorentina wishes to reiterate the absolute correctness of the club and of their own executives.

    "Fiorentina will fight with every means possible so that the truth of the facts are revealed."

    An AC Milan statement said: "AC Milan retains the decision by the CAF of extraordinary injustice.

    "We will appeal once the documents of the verdict will be available, with the certainty that the procedure will be radically modified by appeal."

    Lazio president Claudio Lotito, who was banned for three years for his part in the scandal, was fuming following the verdict.

    "I think this sentence is provisional as it's based on a theorem which is completely ridiculous," he said.

    "I will not make any decisions until a final sentence is given."

    Individuals directly involved with the scandal were also penalised.

    Former Juventus general manager Luciano Moggi and ex-chief executive Antonio Giraudo were suspended from football for the maximum five years, with a recommendation to the FIGC to make it for life.

    AC Milan vice-resident Adriano Galliani was suspended for one year.

    Moggi reacted by saying: "I'm not saddened for myself but for the teams involved and for their fans."

    The tribunal in Rome investigated charges that the clubs, their management, football officials and referees tried to influence the outcome of matches by interfering with the appointment of officials.

    In May, transcripts were published of telephone conversations between Moggi and Italian Football Association officials, discussing refereeing appointments in the 2004-05 season.

    FIGC prosecutor Stefano Palazzi also charged 26 individuals for sporting fraud and violating fairness and probity.

    All four clubs implicated denied the accusations.

    Thirteen of Italy's World Cup-winning squad play for the clubs involved, with five at Juventus, who also have Patrick Vieira, Lilian Thuram, David Trezeguet, Pavel Nedved and Zlatan Ibrahimovic in their ranks.

    Many of them are expected to seek transfers to other leading clubs in Italy or Europe to limit the damage to their careers.

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  3. #2
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    This isn't unprecedented at all. Off teh top of my head I know for sure that AC Milan has been relegated for a similar reason in the past. Juventus president is the only one saying it's unprecedented, and that's because he wants to stay in Serie A. The drop and penalty probably means two years out of the top flight.

    I will say that the severity of the punishment is worse than ever before; but it should have been far greater. As far as I'm concerned, Juventus should be playing in Serie C2 this year.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Fiorentina, a former long time giant, was just relegated three or four years ago alone for shady financing, not just to Serie B but all the way down to Serie C2(And some shady backroom dealing allowed them to get bumped back up quickly to Serie B) so I agree, this move isn't completely "unprecedented".
    Last edited by jmcclain19; 07-15-2006 at 12:27 AM.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    I believe that Napoli was dropped a couple years back, too, because of financial issues.

    I've been following Italian soccer for about 15 years. In this area you can catch a "game of the week" on local leased time programming from RAI. A few years back I was curious as to why DeSanctis was the ref for almost every Juve game. Now I know why.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Hopefully some of the World Cup stars will come across England

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Herd Fan
    This isn't unprecedented at all. Off teh top of my head I know for sure that AC Milan has been relegated for a similar reason in the past. Juventus president is the only one saying it's unprecedented, and that's because he wants to stay in Serie A. The drop and penalty probably means two years out of the top flight.

    I will say that the severity of the punishment is worse than ever before; but it should have been far greater. As far as I'm concerned, Juventus should be playing in Serie C2 this year.
    The biggest previous match-fixing scandal I can recall in Serie A was the "Totonero" affair in 1980 where Milan and Lazio were relegated to Serie B and Paolo Rossi got a 3 year ban for his role (shortened by a year so he could participate and in the 1982 World Cup and help Italy raise the trophy).
    I think this is bigger, because more teams are involved and the behavior that brought about the charges was so brazen and so obviously didn't take into account the integrity of the game.
    Italian soccer has a debt to pay to the game of football, and these punishments are merely a first installment.

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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    AC Milan is appealing that they should be allowed in the UEFA Cuo; their reasoning is that Empoli does not have a license to play. Shameful...I will never again cheer for the Rossonerri, who had previously been one of my favorite teams to watch. Of course I'm a Roma man when it comes to calcio, so the way I see it this season just got a whole bunch more promising.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    It sounds like match-fixing is an ongoing propblem in Serie A. Maybe they need their own Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee
    It sounds like match-fixing is an ongoing propblem in Serie A. Maybe they need their own Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis.
    Well, considering Silvio Berlusconi has at any given time in the past several years been president of AC Milan, Italy, and the European Union (for a while all three), I'd say the corruption goes just a weeeeeee bit deeper than we can fathom. You are right, they need an outside authority to lay down the law with no mercy and zero tolerance.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Herd Fan
    Well, considering Silvio Berlusconi has at any given time in the past several years been president of AC Milan, Italy, and the European Union (for a while all three), I'd say the corruption goes just a weeeeeee bit deeper than we can fathom. You are right, they need an outside authority to lay down the law with no mercy and zero tolerance.
    Yes. It just about floored me when I heard a commentator for the World Cup mention that Berlusconi had offered amnesty to the players involved if they won the World Cup.

    Does UEFA have any power in these matters? If Italy can't fix it's own problems, maybe they need help from outside.

    Can you imagine how the 1919 Black Sox would feel if they had had someone like Berlusconi deciding theif fates rather than Judge Landis?
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee
    Yes. It just about floored me when I heard a commentator for the World Cup mention that Berlusconi had offered amnesty to the players involved if they won the World Cup.
    He doesn't have the power to offer amnesty. He asked for it, but didn't get it. He used the old "the players didn't do anything wrong and they shouldn't be punished" excuse. Hey, the employees at Enron didn't "do anything wrong" but suffered the consequences of their executive management.

    And they didn't become Free Agents that signed multi-million dollar contracts with other companies.

    The players will be just fine. Berlusconi is a windbag. Any further comment would turn this thread political, so I'll refrain. From a soccer perspective, he came out the best, as Milan is still in Serie A.

    As for UEFA...I don't think that Italy is the only country that has encountered this type of scandal. In fact, I think Germany had a huge referee scandal a couple years back; French power Marsielle also suffered from a match-fixing scandal about 10 years ago.
    Last edited by NJReds; 07-16-2006 at 09:20 AM.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds
    He doesn't have the power to offer amnesty. He asked for it, but didn't get it. He used the old "the players didn't do anything wrong and they shouldn't be punished" excuse. Hey, the employees at Enron didn't "do anything wrong" but suffered the consequences of their executive management.

    And they didn't become Free Agents that signed multi-million dollar contracts with other companies.

    The players will be just fine. Berlusconi is a windbag. Any further comment would turn this thread political, so I'll refrain. From a soccer perspective, he came out the best, as Milan is still in Serie A.

    As for UEFA...I don't think that Italy is the only country that has encountered this type of scandal. In fact, I think Germany had a huge referee scandal a couple years back; French power Marsielle also suffered from a match-fixing scandal about 10 years ago.
    Thanks for clearing that up. I forget who it was, but the commentator I heard seemed to imply that Berlusconi had some sort of control over the matter.

    Granted I know very little about the scandals of European soccer. I don't know how the Germans and French dealt with their scandals. But to me, based on the limited facts that have been presented in this thread, it seems like a number of the teams involved in this latest scandal are repeat offenders. While the penalties may seem stiff from an Italian perspective, from my own American perspective, it seems like the teams and players have gotten off lightly. Maybe if I have some time later this summer, I might try to read up on European soccer to get a better idea of where things stand.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Thanks for clearing that up. I forget who it was, but the commentator I heard seemed to imply that Berlusconi had some sort of control over the matter.
    Berlusconi was Prime Minister of Italy until he lost an election earlier this year. As PM, he and his passed a number of laws so that he could avoid prosecution in a number of his own fraud accusations. Now it seems that he's going to face the music.

    This guy held a lot of power: he owns the biggest media conglomerate in Italy and he was President of FC Milan (and still pulls the strings, from what I understand).

    Consider the ramifications if the President of the US also owned a major TV network (and there was only one major network) and presided over the NY Yankees.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    Let the appeals begin. I don't see much coming of this, though.

    Appeals in Italy's soccer scandal to start on July 22

    ROME, July 18 (Reuters) - The four top Italian soccer clubs found guilty in the Serie A match-fixing scandal will begin their appeals on July 22, the president of the appeals court has said.

    "The appeals process, following the sentences of the sports tribunal, will start on Saturday morning at 9 a.m. (0700 GMT)," Piero Sandulli told Italian state broadcaster RAI on Tuesday.

    Last Friday a sports tribunal ordered Juventus, Fiorentina and Lazio to start next season in Italy's second-tier Serie B with points deducted after finding them guilty of conspiring with referees and linesmen to rig matches in the 2004/05 season.

    The fourth side, AC Milan, escaped relegation, but were thrown out of European competition and ordered to start their next campaign minus 15 points. All four have announced their intention to appeal.

    Sandulli defended the work of the sports tribunal, which prohibited witnesses and video evidence, leading to accusations that it failed to give the accused the means to defend themselves.

    "I don't agree with those who argue that during the sports tribunal there were limitations in the defence rights.

    "We are in a judicial situation that the clubs accepted and agreed to in the moment they signed up (to be part of the Italian Football Federation)."

    The sports tribunal opened on June 29 and delivered its verdicts on July 14.

    The appeals process is expected to move much faster but is unlikely to finish by July 25, the deadline set by UEFA for the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) to submit the list of teams to compete in next season's European club competitions.

    If the process remains incomplete on July 25, the FIGC commissioner Guido Rossi has said that Italy's list to UEFA would reflect the verdicts of the sports tribunal.

    In that case, Juventus, Milan and Fiorentina would lose their places in the Champions League making way for AS Roma, Chievo Verona and Palermo.

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    Re: Juventus relegated to Serie B and stripped of last two titles

    The results of the appeal are in:

    Link

    Juve penalty reduced to -17 points (from -30)...still in Serie B.

    Fiorentina and Lazio (originally sent to Serie B at -12 and -7 points respectively) are reinstated to Serie A, but at point penalties of -19 and -11.

    Milan had their Serie A point penalty reduced to -8 (was -15)


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